I find all sorts of weird macOS gotchyas. Some-days I honestly wonder how these issues are allowed to happen and go unfixed (ala Xojo).
Then I remember that Cookâs bonuses are based upon share price and not company/product performance. Skimp on product investment and use that saved cash to buy back shares to artificially raise share prices, thatâs why these things are broken.
Better read Andy Capp stripsâŚ
Interest in Xojo - the Youtube numbers
The view numbers of videos on YouTube can give an idea about the global interest in a product like a coding platform.
Letâs take the numbers for the XDC keynotes:
2023 XDC London - 1052
2022 XDC Developer Retreat - 1584 views
2021 XDC Anywhwere - 908 views
2020 Xojo Update - 5570 views
older keynotes donât seem to be available
The keynote is where people look for information about the platformâs status and outlook. The number of views is surprisingly low compared to the âhundreds of thousands of Xojo developersâ that supposedly exist, according to Xojo Incâs marketing claims. Assuming 200 000 Xojo developers, only about 0.5% were interested in the platformâs future in 2022. In 2020 it was 5570 â 2.8%.
This rate of developer interest may have different possible causes:
For comparison, high view numbers for other videos like âWhat is Xojo?â, not older than 3 years, are in the 5000-6000s. This appears to be a more accurate measure for the true number of people who are actively interested in Xojo than the above mentioned marketing claims - except all others ordered Xojo videos on DVD via email to Xojo marketing.
Of course they are! (EDIT: 450.000 is the claim currently on the website).
The only way one could come up with such a number is by accumulation of ALL people who have EVER used/downloaded (not even bought) Xojo over the 25 years and by counting every renewal of a license as a separate âuserâ. Pure marketing BS that nobody still believes I would hope. Devs arenât that naive. Try finding a Xojo developer to hire. Nobody has ever heard of it.
And just like the Youtube numbers you show, social media likes/reposts are, except for the employees and MVPs, next to zero. Maybe the âhundreds of thousands of usersâ are all on Antarctica and donât have internet access at all⌠
I personally believe this one - this # HAS to be the number of licenses & renewals sold since day 1, not active licenses at any one time
At least thats what I believe
Naw its possible its actual purchases - I base that on what I know from working there
At one time they had a deal with the Poland education system and that was 60K licenses
So 340K licenses over 25 years seems sort of plausible
Thats an average of 13K per year
To me that seems plausible
There are/were customers that held many licenses (@bkeeney can vouch for that as where he works now did, and I think @thorstenstueker had many clients that held many licenses)
So - maybe -
BUT until or unless Xojo clarifies what that 400K # is (current license holders or every license ever sold) we really wont know for sure
But to me, based on what I know, it seems like licenses sold since day 1 and NOT current, unexpired, licenses
of course are these cumulative numbers⌠weâve never seen decreasing numbers⌠our stable genius is a little copycat aswell
I recommend the âcalling bullshitâ seminar
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLPnZfvKID1Sje5jWxt-4CSZD7bUI4gSPS
Still 110K off the claimed number 
Exactly. Misinformation at the very least
I wonder how many of those students actually still used Xojo when they got into their day jobâŚ
JavaFX has 120k Downloads per Month on Maven. So I can now think about how many projects are started with it. Every month. I canât even think about Xojo in one row with Java. But reading Xojo users and filemaker users their product is even better, faster, more reliable, more stable, smarter, more low code, more no code, more functional, has better ecosystem and so on. So please: no umbers of the hundreds of millions of Xojo users. Please not. And also please not: the better, the best Xojo ecosystem. It is killing
whoops âŚ
I took the 60K from Poland out of the averaging as it is an anomaly
So 390K / 25 years = 15K per year (and one year they had a huge # because of the deal with Poland)
Is that all sales ? I truly have no idea BUT I suspect NOT based on what I know
Again without clarification, which I doubt weâd ever get, we wont know
But I suspect the 450K number is definitely suspect at best
Indeed. This paragraph on their website is pure marketing and has no foundation in reality.
Development time can be significantly less when developing with Xojo. In fact, we have heard from Xojo users who built their apps in 20% of the time it took with other tools. How does Xojo help you develop faster? One way is the drag and drop user interface builder. Another is, as opposed to platforms that have thousands of APIs that you need to learn, Xojo abstracts you from the platform details. Youâll save time because you can focus on what makes your application unique and not worry about learning all of these time-consuming APIs.
Declares anybody? 5x times faster than what tools? Maybe the programmers werenât as fluent in the other languages? My statement: I can write apps in B4X or Java 10x faster than in Xojo! True? Or just a meaningless statement? Exactly! There is no base to make such a comparison.
Watching this now and so far its excellent !
I think there is a thread with this topic using the âOrder Numberâ, My las purchase was in 2018, difference from black friday 2017 to 2018 were 4,342 orders
Mile-high heap of bullshit.
I recall that thread
Didnt recall the numbers though
Which makes the # of âusersâ even more suspect.
Do they count free downloads as âusersâ ?
Or, as we know, the IDE reports back to Xojo inc maybe they count all those reports ?
So someone who starts it once is now a âuserâ ?
Again we really dont know so the claim of 450K is suspect
Probably BS
450K users and 30 + something people at the XDC 
I saw java conferences with 40+âŚspeakers and thousands of visitors. What shall I say?
Somehow, philosophizing about sales figures seems rather tedious, doesnât it? Similarly, determining whether the number of YouTube viewers is a good or bad omen is also debatable. Perhaps the software is so exceptional and the marketing so ingenious that nobody needs to watch the videos 
The fact remains that Xojo has survived for several decades, which is an accomplishment in itself and something to be proud of. This was only possible because they managed to sell a few hundred thousand (cumulative) licenses.
Will this help them in the future? Not at all, of course. The truth is that nobody in the industry (at least in Europe) is familiar with Xojo, nor have they ever been. Articles in professional journals have always been scarce or non-existent.
Despite this, we worked with it, or at least purchased it, and for years it was almost like an insiderâs secret. It was never perfect, but it was good enough to make life easier. However, those times have undoubtedly been over for at least the past four years.
In prosperous times, management weaknesses and conceptual inconsistencies often go unnoticed. The truth reveals itself during difficult times, and Xojo is currently facing significant challenges. The surge of errors has grown almost exponentially, with truth and facts being swept under the rug. Survival is only possible because many original customers are locked in or believe they cannot switch. This may be sufficient until the Greensâ management retires, but itâs not guaranteed.
Even if the company were still thriving, in my opinion, the solution is outdated and poses a risky balancing act in terms of performance and security. Xojo is fortunate to have loyal users who donât even consider looking for alternatives. The helpful and civil community still manages to attract beginners occasionally, likely because the original idea remains appealing. This can be compared to communism - it appears promising on paper, but unfortunately, it has been proven time and again that it doesnât work.
There used to be some in MacTech - I know. I wrote them 
It was about the only magazine outside Marcs magazine that really ever published anything about the product that I recall
Perfect would be nice. But unrealistic indeed
Good enough - but there theyâve slipped as weâve all noted
Issues has been very good at showing this - much better than Feedback was
June 19, 2022 (about the time they switch) open bugs = 2018
today ? 2236
Thats even with all the bug bashes and fixed bugs in each release
The count goes up faster than they can fix them
I donât know if thereâs a way to count open bugs per target or not but at this point I wouldnât count Android in the mix simply because itâs not officially released yet. I would expect a ton of Android tickets as the beta testers get their hands on it. After release is a different story.
I know, I know, Iâm giving them the benefit of the doubt on this when I probably shouldnât but Iâm feeling generous today. Having known many Xojo developers over the years I know they work very hard at what they do and in many cases Iâd say itâs their loyalty, pride, and stubbornness that makes the product work in spite of management.
Ideally, Iâd like to know, over time, what Mac, Win, Linux, iOS, Android, RPi, Web, IDE, etc. bug counts are every quarter. That would probably tell us more such as where are they spending all their time, what are they ignoring, whatâs solid, etc. Does Issues have an API that we can query against?
Still existing without real growt while the market grew orders of magnitude is not something to brag about. Cross-platform, the (actual) millions of VB6 users looking for alternatives, Easy Web apps, etc, many HUGE oportunities that the CEO did not know how to take advantage of. And went chasing his own biased believes instead of the real market and user needs.