If nothing else does saying 2019R3.1 is the last Web 1 release mean 2020R1 has Web 2?
Does that answer the when is it coming question?
Right
But that is entirely different in meaning to an LTS version
LTS often implies this is a stable version that will be fixed / patched if critical bugs are found
Thereās no such intention with 2019r3.1 as far as I can tell
Its āThis is the last version there wasā and nothing more
It certainly should
Of course the follow up is āwhen is 2020r1 going to ship ?ā
Personally Iām surprised it hasnt started beta already as you would have expected they would want to get this in the hands of folks who were planning to attend Connect.
To do that theyād have had to have a version out for them last week when it started if thing hadnt been cancelled.
At this point none of us know when such a beta will start.
I didnāt conflate the two, thatās why I said āif nothing elseā
Geoff has said theyāre not doing alpha, beta etc. They already have a pre-release out just to a much smaller selection of testers.
I think the plan is to ship fairly soon after a small test window of general test release.
Not sure thatās such a good idea but hey ho.
Actually, I wonder if this means they are moving away from the release cycle that they currently have?
I dont think I said you did - but Greg saying that the LTS versions is 2019r3.1 might confuse the heck out of others who expect something quite different when the see its an LTS version
Its why I asked him to clarify that - to which he responded seemingly annoyed as we saw
The MVPās - all 5 of them 
God I hope not
I really hope they do several releases as ābetasā for a much wider audience than their 5 MVPās
I really think it would be a supremely bad idea but ā¦ what do I know ? 
I doubt it
Seems what this change in getting to a release is more to try and avoid the case where people would defer testing until such time as FC was reached and at that point it was too darned late to be reporting new bugs. Those would have to get fixed later.
When I worked there this was a constant and well known behaviour.
So I understand the reasoning for trying something different.
They really want people to test early and often because you wont know if this is a beta, fc etc.
It will be interesting to see if it has any impact on either side.
I know my testing of 2019r2 amounted to āOpen clients project. Press runā
At first we got thousands of compilation errors. And that was the end of testing. Things never progressed beyond thousands of compilations errors related to the event renames.
Once 2019r2.1, 3 and 3.1 came out those thousands of errors were gone and we started doing analyze.
At one point we had 30,000 +deprecation warnings
And we still had some compilation errors as Xojo had adopted some class names that we had been using for a long time.
Its taken about 6 months to get those all sorted so we could start working with 2019r3.
So in this case Iām not sure that this change in how they handle testing releases is going to alter our behaviour.
We all shall see wont we ?
I expected the list of controls that were presented to be in v1, not ālaterā. 
Honestly it just doesnāt exist until it is available in some way.
āShip or do not, there is no try.ā ā Yoda.
āReal artists shipā - Steve Jobs
I have a big project that uses Graffitti Suite and WE, I am going to wait to convert for two reasons:
- Need to talk to Anthony about how Graffiti Suite stands up to Web 2.0
- Never really been a first release adopter.
Though I am eager to give web 2.0 a spin, still hesitant to use it for a major release of my tools until enough releases have come out.
Seems prudent
Point Zero releases do tend to make me nervous and this one is a HUGE change
Xojo is already not good (to be polite) at quality control - this change will just exaggerate that problem.
If you watch either the Keynote or the Q & A Geoff explains in one that they are not going to tag any pre-releases as alpha, beta or final candidate.
I guess we will all see how well this meets their goal of trying to encourage more early testing.
I have my own feelings about how this will pan out
Probably as well as Trump saying he might lock down New York - made everyone want to leave ā¦ 
The law of unintended consequences ā¦
You may well be right
Weāll see
Geoff seemed truly surprised at the backlash about API 2.0 especially the event renames
So he may well be surprised by the reaction to this change as well
Personally Iām not sure what Iāll do - no idea if iāll test them or not. More or less
Weāll see
I think this guy is coming to realize that Xojoās āupdateā practices arenāt exactly āenterprise friendlyā
https://forum.xojo.com/conversation/post/481460
An LTS version would be nice but with the staff they have its impractical I think
In that thread Geoff said: "Yes transitioning from Web Framework 1.0 to 2.0 isnāt as simple as opening the project and looking for things that have changed. You WILL have compile errors that you WILL have to fix before you can run. So there is a cost, but it is a one-time cost. "
Another thread Greg said: āSomething important to note about layoutsā¦ the new controls are taller than the old ones by about half. That is, they were all about 22px tall and are now 34 for the most part. So while the layouts do convert, youāll still need to tweak themā
Good luck converting Web 1.0 to 2.0!!!
Unfortunately I think they underestimate how much work upgrading a project will be much like they underestimated it for moving from API 1.0 to API 2.0
Somewhere in the forums theres a post from Geoff saying something along the lines of āwe underestimated the blow back weād get from the event renames as we didnt realize so many of you had clients this would impactā
Or something like that (wish I could find it)
But it basically made it clear he assumed everyone was just using the product and there werent a lot of people who wrote Xojo code that had customers that used that Xojo code
To me it demonstrated a clear lack of understanding of the user base and how people used the product
And, for Web 20, I suspect that regardless of how great it is that if its difficult or a lot of work to do that a lot of people who used Web 1.0 might be slow to adopt Web 2.0
Silly me never thought about the change in size of the controls. No fun at all.
That one I never thought of and that could make for a LOT of work redoing every layout in a significant app
I wonder if a bootsrap theme with smaller input controls could avoid having to redesign the UI.
I do not know bootstrap etc well enough to know if this is workable
But it would seem to be worth a shot
Except wasnāt it said that 22 point is far too small for mobile devices? Can you have a theme just for mobile?
Disclaimer: never used Web edition