Replacement for Xojo as it relates to windows development

Interesting fact: As soon as Flutter Desktop for Mac reaches stable, Flutter Desktop for Windows and Linux will go through the alpha->beta->stable cycle very fast. Because the desktop common-core development is all concentrated in the Mac part right now. So Windows and Linux will have 95% of things done and approved when reaching that stage. There’s a question… will Corona-virus and events affect the production and forecasts, and developments will spill over to 2021?

Which makes your comment something of a non-sequitur since we’re talking about dev tools for WINDOWS and flutter + dart isnt there yet

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But its not there TODAY
That was the question

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Sure. I’ll add it to the next update cycle. It’ll probably be tomorrow AM (GMT). I’m trying to batch upgrades and updates as the process takes the forum offline for about 10 minutes or so.

For those of you who create/need Desktop apps, what features of a Desktop app are the killer features for you?

What makes a Web App not workable?

I ask as Web seems like the Holy Grail for me as it works on anything with a browser.

I’m all for web apps for most use cases but I guess performance is the first thing that pops in my head.

Access to the hardware, peripherals, and OS API.

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The post about “an interesting fact” was a side note, curiosity, not intended to be considered as something scrutinized under the eyes of a focused topic. It was said that’s not there yet in the post, no need to repeat, and that wasn’t questionable as a curiosity fact, direct related or not.

for me personal, all of my apps are database driven that I would create either as a console app or desktop app. Access to SQL Server is a must which I believe is supported in other development platforms. Second requirement is access to file objects on disk to either manipulate or interact with.

As for web apps, I do currently have a Xojo Web app that is database driven in which my customers can login to perform various task. What I like about Xojo Web app is the ability to run standalone thus eliminating the need for ISS / apache requirements and setup.

What kind of bothers me with Xojo is how they can move platforms around at will for purchasing. Big example of this was it used to be that you could buy a console licenses. After Geoff took a poll from the community about what it would mean to bundle it only with Pro and the community responded with no… for sometime they kept it as a separate item that can be purchased and then out of no where they changed it so you have to by pro in order to get console.

They’ve shifted whats included with various licenses around a lot over the years
And shifted pricing around as well
I suspect they’re trying to do this to influence monthly revenue
It makes no sense to do it “just because”
I have no idea if it has had this effect or not
But all those shifts seem to have caused a lot of confusion over the years and, like you mention, things you used to be able to get aren’t available any more without a bump in what you spend
Now if you had a Desktop license you have to spend an additional $400 to get a things you might not care about (web & ios) to get that additional console access

I have often wondered if all these shifts have influenced renewal rates
Has it influenced your decision to renew or not ?

You hit the nail on the head norm.

It depends on what their focus is at the moment… If its IOS or OSX base, often times you will see other platforms not receive the love and attention for future releases. So, if I paid for Xojo Pro and get 1 year of updates, the chances of them updating or adding new features for the platform I care about will be slim unless what I care about is what they are focusing on.

For me, the best way of doing it, is offering the all possibilities of buying anything, any parts, separated, by a value. And having bundles, like a XOJO PRO, packing many of them by a discounted price. This kind of thing should be the eternal way of doing it. You should only change prices of parts and bundles, and add or retire parts from the shelves with the time. I do imagine how many $50 sales they lost waiting for one sale of $400.

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With as many targets as they have and the size of the team I dont know what else they can do

I agree norm. size of the team and how much there is to work I can see as being a challenge. The downfall though is it conflicts with what the customer is lead to believe when purchasing for the first time or renewing. This is not the fault of the actual staff writing the code, it falls more on the marketing of the product

Like @HMARROQUINC I love Pascal, but i would mostly vote for .NET (C# or VB) before Delphi.
That’s for windows alone, even if .NET Core is nicely multi-platform the GUI capabilities are Windows only.
.NET Core winforms or WPF apps are not that heavy, and the runtime is quite fast :


Someone else said “they have a tendency to over promise and under deliver” and thats been true for a long long time. Switching that around and NOT over promising all the time would do them a world of good.
But that IS a marketing issue not an engineering issue

All the things on the current roadmap are good examples
They started talking about some of them as if they were imminent in 2017 or so
And here we are in 2020 still waiting on them

A sales guy I used to work with once said “Sell what you have”
Otherwise you end up with Adam Osborne’s problem where folks dont buy what you have waiting for that thing you promised that is coming “real soon now”

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If Xojo and Basic is your bag, you might as well go for VB.NET. C# is a much easier transition from VB.NET than from Xojo to C#.

And again, it’s free so what do you have to lose?


I have dabbled in C# a few years back, and its definitely on the list of languages to re-try out.

for the development work I am looking to do, its just windows. nothing more… nothing less.