Replacement for Xojo as it relates to windows development

I have been a Xojo user for the past 12 years and really has been the first programming language where I was able to teach myself programming. If I were to dabble in another programming language for windows only where database driven desktop apps and console apps was my focus… what would be your recommendation?

I’d seriously look at Delphi if you’re Windows only
Its way more expensive though

Why specifically Delphi Norman?

I’d suggest Python Rich.

Because its about as close to Xojo with a drag and drop UI you’ll find
Its got a decent working environment, a feature rich tool set and a reasonably good sized user base
IF I was working on Windows only it would probably be my choice at this point in time

I’ve looked at Python (decent toolkits, lots of available stuff but no decent way to package an app into an exe, no decent drag & drop ui builders)
Lazarus (which has some up more than once) and also some of the same tools as bob did and reviewed on his blog
Dart & Flutter arent there on desktops yet
Swift has no decent UI toolkits on Windows

I’n not a big fan of VC and C# / VB.Net etc but they might be a decent alternative
Again, nice big community, lots of resources, and if you want a drag & drop ui creator you can do that there as well

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@rich, I bow to Norman’s vastly superior knowledge in all of this.

Python is a fine choice for some things

Garry & I were looking at how to build an IDE for it and then how to package what gets built into a deployable application

And while Python has a ton of things going for it UI development and deployment of applications (not scripts) are NOT two of them :stuck_out_tongue:

I suspect some of this is a function of its heritage. Python has always been used in very collaborative environments like universities etc where you just shared your scripts.
And thats great for a certain set of problems its not great for a person possibly trying to protect IP etc

There are some UI toolkits but … they’re not “mature” and most either are not native or x-platform (or both)

So it has uses
Just not as a UI developer tool IMHO

As someone who comes from VB.NET to Xojo, I highly recommend the path back.

  1. It’s free for the community version
  2. Syntax is similar enough to Xojo that you don’t need to learn a new language
  3. It has arguably (probably not even arguably) the best IDE and debugger there is
  4. FAR more powerful than Xojo on Windows. Threading, Async, “With” command, Null-conditionals, way too many things to list here.

I’m not sure why Norm’s not a fan, I think it’s the best thing going. If it weren’t for cross-platform, I’d still be there.

I dunno about that
Xcodes is pretty darned nice and I can, when needed, step right down in the assembly

oh and I rarely write anything for Windows

if I were writing for windows primarily I might change my mind

right after committing hari kari :stuck_out_tongue:

I would love to do a head to head - I don’t know anything about Xcode’s debugger/IDE except that I could never figure it out!

It’s probably apples to oranges, but the amount of functionality and configurability and power in the .NET IDE is something to behold. I’ve not found Apple stuff to be (generally) very flexible.

That’s ironic. You use Xojo, which is IMHO one of the only ways to program Macs like you’re still working in Windows! :sweat_smile:

We’ll have to get together sometime to do a “I can do this! Can your IDE do this?” Lol.

The problem with switching to any new (to you) development tool is the learning curve. Some are way better than others at certain things and you have to weigh the pros/cons of each feature. For me cross-platform targets, and a decent Forms Editor was high, and then native controls was a nice-to-have feature. Wanted to stay away from Java’s virtual machine.

I didn’t find many things that compared favorably to Xojo. Not many do cross-platform at all and no one has a complete package as Xojo. And that’s what makes Xojo so frustrating. It’s very good at a lot of things so the developer doesn’t have to worry about it. The other tools can do them but they’re not built-in.

If I was Xojo I’d do this exact same search and see what ‘the competitors’ do really well and see if I could implement them and take some thunder away from them. Sadly, I don’t thing Geoff thinks this way. Instead we get new targets that aren’t fully complete (at best) while the best parts of the product soft of whither away. Or at least that’s my two cents worth.

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Apple tens to be in the “we let you configure some stuff but nothing to drive yourself crazy” camp

MS the complete other end - put whatever you want where ever you want and no 2 devs will have it the same

MacOS and Windows are illustrative of that dichotomy

That nearly every dev I’ve ever met has gone hunting for “something to replace Xojo” should say something to the powers that be. And that they all seem to “settle” for what Xojo is should as well.

I’m not sure the first does
The second often seemed to be taken as “they dont have any choices”
But if, maybe I should say when, people do it might be painful as hell for them

I think you’re thinking of Linux.

Apple is “Do it our way. Why would you want to think different?”

I broke the quoting function again.

make sure you put the open and close quote markup on lines by themselves

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Dev: -.NET, make me an ant, I want to see an ant walking.
.NET: - Here is it!
Dev: - Wow. That’s huge. Why this little ant weights 10 tons?
.NET - Nothing. This ant just needs to be walking on an elephant that comes together (.Net Framework, the correct one) to work correctly.

Like @npalardy said - I think you need to put the bracketed quote tags on lines by themselves. I’ve fixed your post.

I’ll throw another vote in for C# if you’re doing Windows-only development (although as mentioned you can compile for lots of platforms). Visual Studio Community is very capable and free. There is a learning curve to the IDE but that’ll be the case no matter which language you switch to.

I have no personal experience with B4X but I think that is supposed to be very good too.