Say yes to Xojo

No software is perfect, it all depends on how the software company deals with problems (= how they treat their existing customers).
For example at work at the university we heavily rely on the products of some other software company. When I detect a bug in one of these products I create a bug report (sometimes also I create a screen recording and/or example files). The answer to my report arrives within a few hours and it goes like this: „Our developers detected that the behaviour you described is bug. We are sorry for the inconvenience. We will provide a fix with the next release shipping next month.“ And they really fix every bug we report! This is how they keep their customers satisfied and this is why we can happily recommend their products to others.
(Long time Xojo users will read the message between the lines.)

Hi Karen,

Yes, I completely agree with your comments. It does take a while for a programmer to run into the limitations of Xojo. When creating programs the client usually likes the initial program and then wants additional functionality. Many of my clients are visual learners, and graphics are very important. Simple drawings can be made with Xojo. It is disheartening when a client wants a large graphical improvement and Xojo is not the tool to deliver it. This means converting Xojo code to another language that is able to rapidly work with graphics.

I would like to stay with Xojo for all of my projects, and I see them slowly being converted to other programming languages. My internal work can usually be done in Xojo, as long as the graphical demand is low.

LOL, I have had a few interesting discussions where it has been suggested “just write the api wrapper for Vulkan”. Although I can do this, there is a significant time demand. Chuckle, I am still trying to catch up on the many requests when API2 came out. If I were to work on all of my books for a full 40-60 hour work week, my guess is that it would take at least 2 years to update all of my book. My hopes is that there will not be an API3 :slight_smile:

Its this “outgrowing Xojo’s capabilties” that has always bothered me.
There’s no reason this should be the case at such an early stage - but it exists.
And so Xojo sees a lot of people get into, get quite experienced, and then move on to something else.
Sometimes its because, like in your case, growing Xojo’s capabilities isnt just an incremental task. It would be a significant undertaking
And then the choice is more like “I could do this and I get this one extra thing in Xojo OR or I move my code to X and I get this plus a lot of other things as well”
hmmm …

Chalres Yeomans comes to mind (along with lots of others)

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I learned a lot from his posts on the NUG back in the day…

I really wish Xojo had kept up with modern expectations as OSes became more capable, instead of largely leaving big parts of the framework capabilities where there were 15 years ago. I really do think they have been focusing the wrong things for a long time now.

-Karen

Keep in mind that on THIS forum you are allowed to voice your frustrations and compare Xojo with other tools without being censored or shut down (something I intensely dislike on the official forum).

You might also want to have a look at Bob‘s blog (https://www.bkeeneybriefs.com/) as he looked at quite a few other cross-platform tools, but none offered the unique combination that Xojo does (especially the visual creation of user interfaces). That being said, some of the big players seem to be heading the same way.

For me the biggest problem is the neglect of the Windows (and Linux) platform - the underlying framework is in desperate need of modernization. Instead they produced half-assed implementations for iOS and Raspberry Pi, though Web wasn’t too bad.

If you do database work then Argen should be essential. The Einhugur and Monkeybread plug-ins give you a LOT more capabilities and power.

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There are a few threads on this forums that cover this as well (and maybe a bit more)


On a positive note the Xojo forum is quite a nice place, where friendly users (and sometimes Xojo engineers too) really try to help. Even when I was a Xojo (then RealStudio) beginner and asked stupid questions, (where the answer/solution was quite obvious - but of course not for me) I always got friendly answers. Some time ago I visited a Java forum and opened quite a few threads where new and probably young Java users asked questions and it seemed the only answer they got was always the same: „You should search the forum before asking questions.“

Dont count Raspberry Pi, that is the right way, its just linux with another architecture, and opens a lot of posibilities for tons of other ARM variants

But yes, If they cant keep the pace with desktop, they should keep away from the rapid changing mobile platforms and focus on improvements of what the currently had.

This kind of attitude would not even work at the Xojo Forum as our search tool mostly does not work. Better to answer. :smiley:

I haven’t used FileMaker in two decades, but back in those times we did some really wicked stuff with it, combined with Apple Script and Xojo (RealBasic at the time). I worked for a European Apple Reseller and built their automated credit card handling system for their business.

IMHO Xojo is a natural one-up from FileMaker, the database creation is a bit more complex, but it’s x-plat and coming from FileMaker it should do what you want, while creating Apps that can be sold in the Mac App Store (which FileMaker, even though is an Apple subsidiary, cannot).

The biggest beef I have with Xojo is it’s limiting to what I want to do with it. They’ve made some great strides in allowing more control, but some things are still very closed off, which means I can’t customize certain things, or fix bugs in their components and are forced to re-create the entire wheel, just to change the brake pads.

Last year Xojo choose to “refresh” the language to make it easier for users from other languages??? There are many negatives to altering the language, the most prominent is that decades worth of sample code, are now useless. Bob has spent years building “training” resources, which are out of date and would take potentially years to update.

Many users, myself included saw this a slap in the face, there are things that we’ve been waiting for years for Xojo to implement, somethings are minor, like exposing the underlying NSSavePanel ptr so I can customize it, some are far more serious. And this language refresh made us feel like (even though we’re paying top dollar plans), we’re not Xojo’s target audience.

Most probably will never be recreated by anyone

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https://www.bkeeneybriefs.com/2019/11/im-not-xojos-target-audience-is-anyone/

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You don’t have to use the “forum search tool” to search in a forum, it is easier to use google, just add the forum url to limit the search:

enumerations site:forum.xojo.com

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Using google to search the forums DOES work much better - when the posts are public
Unfortunately it doesnt help if there’s something in one of the Testers threads or others that are not public

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Worst: using google to search in the forum adds specifics advertising to your navigations. I stopped using google because of that.

API2: I tried, but I had to read the Language Reference so often that I stopped.

Nota: I use REALbasic, Real Studio, Xojo since may 1998. Go figure.

At last, I do not wrote a line of code since… two months (probably, I really do not recall exactly).

Have you not heard of Adblockers”

Yes, but I am tired to use workarounds / fear for virus/trohan, etc. (my VirtualBox’s Windows want to download Web Companion by Lavasoft… and I do not know how to get ride of this, go figure ! 40 years in this business and…).

Thanks for the info.

Have you not heard of annonimous browsing?

Couple of things I have to say about Xojo and why I use it.

  1. As a 30+ year-long Windows programmer, I probably still wouldn’t have been able to write a MacOS desktop app without it. It makes all things Mac SO FREAKING EASY.
  2. So much stuff that can be difficult to do in other languages, JUST WORKS. So much stuff I’ve just fiddled around with, not reading any docs, and low and behold, it works.

Contrasted with other environments that I still can’t get my head around, even after reading and taking online courses, none of it “just works” the way it automagically does in Xojo.

So many times I’ve thought, I wonder how this feature works? Click, Drag, drop. Oh. It works. Wow!

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Yep. And then you need a feature that doesn’t work. And that has a known bug for years. And you go WTF? Why don’t they fix it? Why don’t they upgrade the framework?

Basically Xojo is living off their “inheritance” (the things that still work), but instead of doing proper maintenance and upkeep (sockets, movie player, HTML viewer, RTF, etc) they go for risky investments in the hope of landing a big win (iOS, Android) … while the family business stagnates and crumbles, and worse, their reputation goes down the drain with it (just look at how many long term users have gone in the last two years - a certain attrition is expected, but what happened lately is unprecedented)

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