This is horrible to hear but not at all unexpected seeing how Xojo inc. behaves the last decade 
1 Like
Thatās likely why there are so many departures from Xojo. Too many bugs was my number one reason.
1 Like
They talk a big game about dog fooding their own software but history says this is only true with desktop apps (and even then only certain parts of it). I would say reporting is very weak, as are grids, and even database connectivity because they donāt use it all day, every day, like we do. Sure the IDE is very complex but they donāt use it as a RAD tool at that point.
It took them a very long time to get a real Web 1 and a real iOS app for a demo. I havenāt even looked with Web 2. They should have Eddies Electronics working (at a minimum) the day they release a new target. But alas, what the hell do I know?
3 Likes
That is really sad, because that is exactly the way how I feel about Xojo at this very moment. I understand it from a ābusinessā POV and I would love to prove that this is the wrong attitude, but I canāt.
Since API 2.0, weāve all watched as respected members of the community have reduced their participation, moved onto other tools, shut down their consulting company, stopped promoting Xojo and so on.
I honestly thought after the āDesktopControlsā burnt more enthusiast customers, that was the endā¦ I was wrong.
Which is why I wrote the post about putting attention back onto the Mac platform. Itās nice to know that it was taken seriously by at least member of the team, and Iām interested to see what will come from it.
Hopefully no more garbage renaming all the thingsā¦
The damage is doneā¦ So much time spent chasing after things that IMO in the large scheme of things are AT BEST minor considerations, and ignoring what was most import fro Xojo as a tool to earn the respect that could have generated a lot more income in the long runā¦
Spending their minimal resources on the wrong things big time IMO.
-Karen
2 Likes
Iāve stopped relying on hope
Too many years spent āhopingā theyād see that making a professional tool ISNT antitehetical to making a tool new user and citizens can use.
Iām actually starting to use other tools to do some day to day tasks JUST to get more conversant with them for the time when I can shelve Xojo entirely. C# in VS on a Mac ISNT horrible
No drag and drop UI builder, yet - but given where theyāve gotten to with VS so far & .Net Core Im impressed. Its VERY usable and VERY robust.
And its not Swift 
Too much to wrap my head around to move to it
1 Like
Lets take a look to the Xojo logicā¦
if the new ways to do the same thing but with more bugs and code, product renaming, company renamig, kewords renaming, etc, etc, is not workingā¦
MUST BE THE INTERNET TROLLS, soā¦ Lets rename more things and introduce half baked targets
1 Like
I thought the lack of drag and drop UI builder would cause me a lot of issues when looking for a replacement for Xojo but turns out it doesnāt bother me that much in the grand scheme of things. (Iām using Gnome Builder and Vala)
1 Like
Oh its not an insurmountable obstacle
Just a curious missing piece at this point
Not having a GUI makes it easier to write code that generates code too.
Wow.
But indeed hobby developers as a customer base are very different.
They often donāt report bugs as much as they often expect it to be their own fault. Then when they report something and I come back a few days later, I often get the answers that they found a workaround themselves or even stopped the project as their interest moved.
But we need the professionals as they drive the tool forward. They demand more perfection and while a few of my customers can be really annoying for emailing me often to pitch a problem, I am mostly thankful for them as they helped me to find very complex bugs.
1 Like
Why I said on Letter to Geoff - #143 by npalardy
that I dont think making a tool pros, citizens & hobbyists can all use has to be mutually exclusive goals
But I dont think Xojo even tries to do that
2 Likes
Hey, I resemble that annoying customer! 
2 Likes
That sounds for me like empty words. āWe needā¦ā Xojo showed more than one time that they are not interested in professional users. And to be clear: the 3 or 5k active users are not so many that they can rest and rely on it. But they do.
As a professional Developer they start to hate you in exactly the moment where you have a bunch of showstoppers and they canāt serve a solution.
But that is needed. For a professional tool. Also the wording (Android, coming soon) for 5 years, really??? No. Really not. That was and that is not professional behavior.
You wanted to have business with them. Now you regret it? Not helping. That customers are asking: my every days business. And not only mine. Thatās the way we do it.
For a long time they _seemed_like they courted all of those segments
Maybe not equally but they made some noises in that direction
Now they dont seem to even make much effort to
That seems to me to be whats exacerbated things for a lot of long time professional users who seem to have left
Or at least have gone very silent
Hard to tell which
2 Likes
True for beginners ā¦ but not for longā¦ even non pros donāt stay beginners.
That WAS me many years ago teaching myself to code with things like Pascal and Datatrive on a VAXā¦ but back then the chances of it NOT being my fault was infinitesimally small!
By the time I got to RB 20ish years ago I was past that, and with RB the odds were were at least 50-50 that it was a bug.
-Karen
1 Like
I always hated this response to reporting a showstopper bug: Well, no one else is reporting this so itās not that important. After a while those showstoppers add up and you start asking the important questions.
9 Likes
RAD: Rapid Application Development
Xojo is SAD (Slow Application Development).
It is sad, very sad.
I dunno, the desktop is still ok. Itās those new targets that seem dodgy.