Color me surprised this morning

based on recent “financial” records from various sites … Xojo has an annual income of about 1.3 to 1.7 million… when if all were $299 base licenses would only be around 4,500 …now that doesn’t account for people with expired licenses that still use it, but does cap the # of people the have NEW or Renewed ACTIVE license

Same here

Oh absolutely! e.g. If they ever would consider selling the company, a simple due diligence would immediately reveal how they over hyped themselves all these years.

Suppose they are all $299 users
1.7 million - (800 pro * $699) → maybe 3800 users @299
1.3 million - (800 pro * $699) → maybe 2500 users @299

if we assume they are all lite licenses @99
1.7 million - (800 pro * $699) → maybe 11500 users @99
1.3 million - (800 pro * $699) → maybe 7500 users @99

a few #'s does kind of put bounds on it

but it is all speculation :slight_smile:


All speculation, that is true. But probably not totally off the mark.
Adding evidence: They have a dedicated workforce, but Xojo appears short-staffed. And Xojo is not hiring. There is so much work to do. The CEO doing a tech writer’s job in a whack-a-mole style is concerning.


Fixing the docs and telling users to adjust their expectation is easier than actually fixing bugs & inconsistencies

Why would you ever expect that Xojo should sort UTF-8, its default encoding, like ICU suggests it should ? Instead you have to write your own from the bits they already give you

Funny the things they say “oh we couldn’t do that it would break code”
And the ones they do - like changing event names & property names and even behaviour when you set some properties apparently

Consistently inconsistent


Moving to something else is a pain, but OMG it’s worth it. So nice to not deal with this crap.


You have no idea how much I’d like to do that
Its just not my choice

I do get the sense with one, if not more, of my clients that such a point is going to be reached


I do know of at least one remaining Xojo consultant, who has been helping their clients move to different tools, because the consultant and the clients no longer have faith that Xojo has long term customers interests in heart.

Which is really sad, but it’s a shared feeling by literally all but a few Xojo customer I know and interact with.

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sad but :man_shrugging:
Many people have tried to say such things to Xojo for a long while and its fallen on deaf ears
So many have moved

As a contractor I have NO issue paying them 2K+ a year.
CodeWarrior used to cost me a lot more.
Same with VB and all the add ons.
It was just a cost of doing business.

BUT it HAS to be solid. It has to be mostly predictable from one version to the next.
I cant say that has been the case in the last few years.
Its been unpredictable, convulsing from Web 1 to Web 2 and API1 to API 2 to whatever its called now with all the associated changes each version brought.

All those changes are hell to manage and feel too much like Y2K code - rewrite everything to get what you already have.

Except this time it brought new bugs along with the new API so it wasnt a step forward but a step backwards until those bugs get fixed. That the bug bash is addressing as many bugs in things that are essentially brand new is telling.

I’ve got clients who have literally said “We’ll use the version we have until hell freezes over. And move later.” And I’ve heard others say much the same that have many many more licenses.

Its as if Mgmt at Xojo has never worked in the business and has no idea how these changes impact people who DO have many clients.
Or they do and they just dont care

I truly dont know which it is


Honestly in the 20+ years i have used it, it really never has been solid…

BUT it used to be old code rarely broke and staying current did not mean having to rewrite applications… relatively minor tweaks were required when not using new features… THAT is what changed…

Those navel gazing changes meant they spent so much time reinventing themselves that they neglected advancing the capabilities of what they had in significant ways for way too long (I am not taking about new targets … which tended to be half backed and very late to market anyway)

And yes the bugs started pilling up faster… And IMO at some point there became less concern for keeping behaviors the same X-platform for some non UI stuff (which IMO is the primary reason for Xojo’s existence)



I deal with enough of this crap when using Apple APIs directly, so when Xojo pulled the same stunt, it really didn’t make me happy.

But now people are saying that you need to update to API 2.0 / desktopControls to get bug fixes in the future. I just can’t believe it.

Heck, when Apple adopted Swift, they didn’t cut off customers still using Objective-C.


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Folks have been asking/speculating when Apple will remove Obj-C for nearly a decade already

My semi-educated guess is that until/unless the OS and every framework is rewritten in Swift that Obj-C will be an option

And thats still many years out in the future

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Back to the “I know what is best”, “I know what people want”. That narrow view when they simply DONT THINK on how all that crap impact users and their own growth.

Another Honest opinion in TOF:

I am as baffled as anyone as to the path Xojo Inc have followed. Open Vs Opening…Really(!) I bet that was an interesting meeting. Just glad it wasn’t my subscription money paying for the tea and biscuits.

But I bet the management is going ignore it and see it as just “another troll” :roll_eyes:


It comes down to Geoff doing a crappy job as CEO, but it’s his to sink. Good luck trying to build a biz on Xojo apps while trying to not drown.

xojo could be huge… but he bring it to the “still existing” and now maybe even that is at risk

I have a biz partially based on Xojo apps :pensive:

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It’s crazy that folks are not demanding Geoff to step down from management.

Are you serious? How can anybody demand a CEO of his own company to step down?

You are no longer using Xojo. Why are you still bothering so much about Xojo? You really must be highly frustrated!

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Doesn’t matter if he owns Xojo. If the CEO can’t do the job, he should step down.

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It does matter. Who will fire himself from his/her own company?