Xojo fixed it’s bug problem!

Here’s an idea - don’t waste valuable developer resources in a small team writing your own bug reporting tool - use one of the tons that already exist and are being actively maintained elsewhere!!

I’ve never understood the need to roll your own - improve the product you sell FFS

(I haven’t read the whole thread so this may have been suggested before!)

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They probably have some very, very specific needs, that a generic bug tracking system doesn’t have, like showing fake statuses to users (all as Open) and real statuses to the manager (Bug - Urgent, Bug - Maybe next year, Bug - Nah!) and another set of things to the team, and linking all those things to their licensing scheme… That sort of thing. Before that they were collecting system info and crash reports using their proprietary Feedback App, and such kind of thing demanded a proprietary system too. Who knows what more?
There’s some reason. They know bug tracking systems, they only couldn’t find one that covers theirs specifics.

The only advantage I see with them writing their own is that, assuming they’re using 100% Xojo to do it, they will run into more bugs and hopefully fix them instead of working around them.

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We make a development tool so we should use it to write our own (insert thing here)

But I doubt they wrote their own accounting software :slight_smile:

There are some things that seem like they’d be hard to do in bugzilla, mantis , red mine etc etc like private groups like Testers or private posts on public bug reports

So I could see thats a reason NOT to use one

But the amount of time & effort spent on creating, supporting and updating feedback might be better spent elsewhere

I’ve said this many times before

They may have their “own needs” - maybe - but bug tools now are SO flexible they surely can tailor one to something that’d work?

Besides, they have a handful of developers. On the Xojo website, 6 people are listed as Engineers supporting all these frameworks (top of my head list).

  1. MacOS
  2. Windows
  3. Linux
  4. Web
  5. Compiler
  6. iOS
  7. Android
  8. IDE

Can they really spare the dev time on a bug reporting tool?

At this point I wouldn’t put it past them.

I would concur and have for a long time

I’m quite certain they didnt/havent

If somebody was writing his development Software with his Development Software without getting that there are many hundreds of Bugs and Showstoppers…wow. I have at the time one Bug outside which comes up every now and then and we where searching it for long time. Now we found him. A Glitch of a MCU from Atmel/Microchips. Costs an hour to fix and weeks for searching.

I can not understand how they can behave like they are doing. So for me there is only one Basic Language: B4x and nothing else. For Desktop. For IOS. For Android. For Web. For Arduino-Boards. There is nothing more I do need for my customers to be able to change stuffs in user interfaces and so on.

And the problem is: Even if B4J and the Web Extension costs less than Xojo pro I have no problems with it. When and if I find a Bug: reporting and fast fixing. There is a BIG quality Issue Problem with Xojo which they should fix fast before it is to late and the Language is entirely DEAD

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You should know by now that it is only marketing.
“Look what you can do with Xojo Web”

But with the state of web2, most likely it will be filled with hacks and workarounds, not really something that can be made out of the box.

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If there’s one thing that this exchange has taught me, it’s that I’m terrible at getting my sarcasm to come across in my comments correctly.

All I know for certain is that the new web feedback app has turned into a running joke of their own making. I can’t wait for the punchline.

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I thought Xojo itself had become a running joke lately

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There is a Web Feedback App? I didn’t get. WOW.

Naw I caught that but DID want to state that “as far as I know they havent” just in case :slight_smile:

I can attest to needing a growing number of these as I am working on clients projects (yes several) that are trying to make use of Web 2
bug list is up to 90 + open issues

Not yet
We’re havent even seen repeated previews yet so we might be years away yet :stuck_out_tongue:

This old bug report shows the absurdity of Xojo’s tinkering:

feedback://showreport?report_id=9139: autocomplete of combobox changes sort order

Greg O’Lone reported the bug on Sep 7, 2009 (before joining Xojo in 2011)
It got verified at some point.
Greg himself changed the status on May 6, 2019 (yes, TEN years later! What took him so long???) to reproducible and the category to “Framework - all”

Since then - nothing.

Now I consider that a fairly bad bug (not as bad as others, but really, that should NOT happen) as it is a very obvious one and just screams “amateur developer at work”

If that was me developing a tool for others to use, I would be highly embarrassed: :flushed:

But when even Greg O’Lone can’t get his reported bugs fixed, it raises the question: what is the point of bug reports?

The only way forward I see that promises even a modicum of success is: the top developers (Norman, Björn, Sam, Christian, …) get together and make a list of the 50 most important bugs to be fixed, and then everyone piles all his/her points onto them. And raise hell if they are still in the next version.

Wash. Rinse. Repeat.

IF there appeared to be a really serious effort at doing robust & thorough unit testing at Xojo it might not be so hard to win some support.
The bugs that slip through, things documented as being in releases that turn out not to be, things that arent documented in a release, etc would suggest an internally chaotic process
Fixing that process might go a long way to making the community less hostile as there might be fewer “ooops” moments in each release

And several, not just one or two, releases focused on winning back folks who would renew (since renewals are just as financially rewarding to Xojo as new licenses)

It might even earn them extra word of mouth from folks who USE the product (as opposed to those who are just looking at it for the first time)

But thats just my wild assed guess

I have reason to believe MY name should NOT be on such a list or it would be doomed to failure before it got started

If they would have the needed amount of employees - I mean real engineers and not hobbyists with no Idea of quality in Software - they could. But with effectively three programmers you can not do the Job of twenty of them plus project management and administration, cto CEO or in short: a company around forty people.

They try to but it isn’t successful. It can not be successful.

I am not sure that the issues in my list would appeal to many others, which is why they don’t get fixed in the first place.

One of them only affects 3 App Wrapper customers (that I know of), Greg and I had a public spat in the last few years about it, and as of yet, I’ve not found any other workaround than to delete the Xojo made Resources folder, those that needed localization have made their own solution.

FYI, it only became public because my case was closed with 24 hours and the response given by Xojo clearly indicated that Xojo didn’t understand what I was trying to say, but as it was closed, I couldn’t discuss the matter through Feedback (yes I now know, you can click on the status and ask for it to be re-opened).

Edit: I realize my statement is not 100% fair. In 2021r3, I did receive notification of 4 bug fixes. The checkbox now obeys cell alingmemt at my request (in a listbox) and the whole OSHandle thing with external methods is at my request. So Xojo do listen to me.