OMG, I read this post, I can not believe Christian supporting the ban, at least so publicly on a forum, but even more mind-blowing is Kim Tekinay, I always considered him an absolute top professional and fact based opinion with zero alignment toward the kool aid.
ether I missed something or there is a softening and greater divide between the facts of the ‘xojosphere’ and these who have weaned themselves off the kool aid.
its like if Norm suddenly becoming an MVP, I am really twisted up by this turn of events.
The negativity mentioned in this thread has nothing to do with what Xojo says. THIS is an example of negativity (and I am only using this one because I have it at hand, there are many more all over the forum):
When I read this
after reading the sentence I quoted above, I get the feeling you want the fire to grow larger, and you are even feeding it (and again, this is not specifically about you Dave, but many people in this forum). And I don’t understand what you want to achieve, why you seem so eager to go on with what appears to be a crusade against everything Xojo.
Many of you have stated you care about Xojo and would like to see it improve. You know you will get nothing changed acting this way, right? Then, what’s your objective?
When you go thru this, you kinda go thru stages of loss. One of the stages is loss of all hope when you are pretty sure things won’t get better. So you make jokes about it. It helps with the healing.
I’d just like to see Xojo show they care about the quality issues. And by care I mean take action to rectify the problems why so many new bugs are being introduced.
Julen … take it as you will… But it is doubtful that the opinions (negative or not) will be changing anytime soon, unless Xojo realizes that their current methods, attitudes and customer service need to be severely changed.
My statement about how egotistical and arrogant Mr. Geoff Perlman is, remains in my opinion a statement of fact… perhaps a negative fact in YOUR opinion, but a solid fact in mine.
The actions he has taken (or in most cases not taken) have hurt his reputation and that of his company. If THAT were not true, then there would have never been need to start this forum. But it did come to exist, because anything that is said on TOF that doesn’t fall 100% in line with the company doctrine, is discounted, and deleted… And I’m sorry, but one cannot exist on Kool-Aid alone, not if one has any integrity and a moral compass.
What do “WE” want to achieve? It is quite simple. For Xojo to pull their head out of their ass, and LISTEN to their customers… Don’t think they always know best… They have lost dozens (if not more) of their previously loyal clients, the Forum knowledge base has suffered… I shake my head at most of the answers I read there, not to mention the low quality questions… But then that is what would be expected when the emphasis is shifted from “Citizen/Pro” developers to Newbies…
Xojo is making the fire grow larger and larger without needing any help, then blaming the people that are just screaming at them how stupid is to add more fuel to it.
Even if you cared for the product, after lloking all the stupid desitions, the poor quality, the long standing promisses, many big users leaving, and Xojo just blaming everyone but their own actions…
there is no other thing to do but grab the popcorns and look the fire grow bigger. even if that makes you sad.
It was out of listing for not a so long time. What ever, maybe a server error? I don’t know.
The Medizin Balls: that is meant in a metaphorical wise. Not even ironic. It needs strong mind to see that you are with every word in the danger to get kicked out of the forum. Especially cause you was banned before they had their last warning. I know that this arguments are not really working but…
The more people they ban or otherwise frustrate the more places like INN get traffic - and they lose control of ANY possibility to manage or respond in positive ways that improve their brand.
I can see that in the read stats every time one of these threads gets going. Post counts here go up and so do page reads
If every person who criticizes you or your work is a “troll” then you tend to respond and act in ways consistent with that belief
I’m sure we all do it from time to time
But, with the forums being a marketing tool, that urge has to be resisted
For those of us banned there is no means to gain anything
They’ve shut that door
But, at least in my case, I still post tips & such on my blog, and post here to help people who happen to wander by.
But since I’ve been labelled as “negative” the only way they see anything I do is as “negative”.
Theres no nuance. No room for “sometimes positive sometimes negative”.
I still file bug reports
My clients press Xojo about the ones that matter
The end game ? Maybe some tiny chance to have some influence ? Unsuspension I dont ever expect that will occur
Starting with the CEO: you can see it when reading tof and realize that Mr. Perlman promised to support Xojo 2019R32 further. In that moment the documentation was not reachable for Linux users anymore and he snowed that. THAT is a SHOWSTOPPER but for him it was not worth to think about. That is arrogant.
The people are scared. Everybody that get that critics led to ban shuts up or is doing the critics. And yes, I have been warned. But it was a to hard situation. Because we were developing at that time only with Linux based systems. NO Windows No Mac. That came later not connected to Xojo with the M1 and it’s quality. Why I was getting kicked? Ha yes: while I every day was protesting that:
2019R32 was deprecated and following to the Standards not to use anymore
the documentation was switched off
no local documentation was working
the IDE under Linux and Windows is catastrophically
the new 2020 Version was quarter baken
and more than 72 reasons more. I am to lacy to write.
So yes the people are scared while they will never ever get support (even if it is promised) via Feedback or Email.
And that Dave like me gets Popcorn and watches for the fire: what are you expecting? Users having not working IDE and half baken frameworks. There will come the break even point where we have a problem which is named burning world. The fire is lighted by persons like Mr. Perlman which says stuffs like we will support and is not doing it. That is not acceptable. And only one example of many.
Reading your reply is telling me that you try to protect Xojo, inc. The Language and the Idea behind are another thing. The inc is owner and decider. And the decisions which are feeding the fire are not taken by Dave, Norm, Hal or me. In my eyes you overdrive the reaction. And yes: Dave is negative. Because he was spending much time for…ahhh yes. Nothing.
I ’ ve met you Markus
You and all the others at the conference made me realize just how short I am
Like a midget standing in the center of the all pro basketball team where the “short” guy is 6’4"
Jeremy Clarkson is the Top Gear guy (bully) … it’s on Amazon Prime. Basically he bought a huge farm years ago that was well managed by a few guys, and then decided to get involved in his usual brash (arrogant) style … turns out there is a human in there after all. It’s rated 9,3 out of 10 with nearly 600 reviewers.
Yeah, but I’m trying to cheer Norman up who is depressed about Xojo AND not being as expansive as I am (looking at old photos I think I’m related to a Hefeklops [ball of yeast dough]) … and if you recommend a sad movie he might jump out of a window (on the ground floor obviously … health & safety etc must be observed after all) …
… going off to bake an Apple cake now … that cheers ME up …
I have nearly every day with Norman a longer conversation. And I can see: he really still hopes that everything will change. Yes, you are right. And I by self have this relationship to ball of yeast dough. Yes. I know that problem. You’re on the right way. Thanks for spending the power.
