Xojo Banning and Deleting Posts

It already does. Due to his behaviour I had decided not to buy his plug-ins.

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Trust me you are not alone

That many of the people here used to be supporters, if not outright boosters, of Xojo and have become disillusioned with them says a lot
Karens post the other day was spot on

But it really needs to be honest
Not sure they can do that for themselves
They might need someone outside to do it IF they really want to be honest about things

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Well, postings get flagged, moderators are notified.
Anthony is a frequent visitor and sees those more often than others.

Maybe Xojo Inc. should let people know when their posts get a lot of flags.
We may all be surprised about the numbers.

Sorry Christian, editing other people’s posts is an absolute no-no.

Anthony has gone waaay overboard with his “moderating” - that isn’t “moderating” anymore, that is outright censorship.

The phrase “drunk with power” comes to mind.

And just because someone disagrees with you and flags your post does not mean your post should be removed.

P.S. What’s the saying? “Just because billions of flies eat shit doesn’t mean I should too.”

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Think different:

Here’s to the crazy ones, the misfits, the rebels, the troublemakers, the round pegs in the square holes… the ones who see things differently — they’re not fond of rules… You can quote them, disagree with them, glorify or vilify them, but the only thing you can’t do is ignore them because they change things… they push the human race forward, and while some may see them as the crazy ones, we see genius, because the ones who are crazy enough to think that they can change the world, are the ones who do.
— Steve Jobs, 1997

And that’s what Xojo is trying with their “moderating”: stifle their voice so they can ignore them.

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I agree, maybe 0. Using such excuse to do whatever you want without any public confirmation seems a great tool for a camouflaged censorship or imposition of your personal views.

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it keeps other USERS from seeing it - controlling the message

problem is that doing that means places like this crop up where they have NO control or influence

the BEST way to quell criticism would not be to stifle dissent but

  1. empathize with the critics situation rather than dismiss it as irrational, trolling, etc
  2. under promise and over deliver
  3. be clear, up front and honest (web 1 → web 2 for instance)
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I see: flag it and drink the cool aid and let things go their way. Sorry but censorship to form out mvp and xojo are right aren’t right. It is shitty behavior. It is exactly this what makes this autocratic forum not to a user forum but a company forum. Xojo Forum is their support while they provide no support at all. Except the forum. Elegant let my users do what is supposed to be my job and not theirs. Instead of doing so it should be so that it is even named community → forum and should not be mvp driven. People like you are deciding who can stay and what is allowed to say driven only by commercial interests. Sorry but even you are sometimes deciding about even then when a thread is needed to get clear and you write that thread should be closed and set to unlisted. It isn’t a user forum. It is the official support channel cause they have non and nobody is allowed to say what they don’t want to hear. Listening to the truths is hard sometimes. We are in that situation. And no, if the people have no bread they can not eat cake. If I look on it from distance it is a bit like a horror film. If it would be my company or if I would be mvp I would be ashamed.

Edit: Forgot the link.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2021-02-09/this-is-how-tim-cook-transformed-apple-aapl-after-steve-jobs

Something I stumbled upon on TOF while looking into something unrelated, deja vu or what, I have no idea who this guy was but what is said is almost verbatim to what’ being said now, so I guess xojo is consistent:

Everyone you may think are trolls may not actually be trolls. Some may just be extremely frustrated and disappointed current and previous customers waiting for Xojo to focus on fixing many of the long standing bugs and getting the IDE to a point where increase productivity instead of making development more difficult. I would love to use the product again. But I refuse to reward them by renewing my subscription and ignoring the issues it has until they get their act together. The ones here that minimize the issues or ignore them all together are doing the community a great disservice. The are passively allowing the poor quality releases to continue and for the value of our subscriptions to be deminished. So if I am a troll for pointing out issues and wanting Xojo to do better, than I wear that title proudly.

Until the product gets more solid and, more importantly, until they time they took from my last subscription due to the new IDE transition is deducted from any new subscription, they won’t see another dime from me. And yes, I have contacted customer service serveral times. A 20% (1/5) discount is just not acceptable.

Some of you that choose to blindly drink the Xojo Kool Aid will think that there aren’t a lot of people out there that feel the same way as I do. I would bet you would be wrong. We are the silent majority that read the forums but rarely, if ever, post. We are the ones that want to renew but won’t until the product gets more solid and some of the bugs we care about are fixed and released. We aren’t haters. We just want value for the subscription fees we pay. We don’t want to be left in the cold because a new IDE was being developed. We are tired of new functionality being released way before it is ready. And we are REALLY frustrated with regression bugs in almost every release. We are not your QA team. We are current and previous customers waiting for RB/RS/Xojo to become the product that it can be. I know, we may be waiting forever.

I’m sure this post will probably get deleted and this account suspended, but I don’t care. Those who really need to see it probably will.

Troll

By the way, I’m no newbie. I had been using the product for almost 10 years.`

On a side note, if this guy was suspended wouldn’t that make more than 5 people total as Brad posts after this one so its not him?

I wouldn’t poke the bear, you never know how it reacts, I’m sure there are ways to control and influence this place. As for Anthony who was concerned enough to set up the first discord and to actively partake in the “dissent”, he quickly found where his bread was buttered when push came to shove.

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The big problem with this, is that it is not solving the issue, it is simply concealing it from new customers.

Which means the problem persists, upset customers will continue to post to the forum, which new customers will see at some point, they will also witness posts being deleted and once enthusiasts of the product, cast aside, which in turn spawns a seed of doubt in their minds.

When a decision is made that negatively affects the current defendors, they too will repeat the cycle, and ultimately become the very same people that they complained about.

What is needed is not ignore or push the complaints away, those complaints should remain there, but clear action to show that the issue is going to be addressed in a constructive manor should be right there along side it.

This will let new customers know, there are problems (every company has problems), the problems are being solved, and that the community thanks them for solving these issues. IMHO it is far better to demonstrate cleaning of dirty laundry, then simply burying it.

But I know that I am an odd one in the way I think.

Which will likely soon be deleted now!

-Karen

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BTW For a long time now, looking back, I felt something basic changed about the company about a year or two at least before the change from REALSoftware/REALBasic to Xojo…

I don’t know what changed, if it was due to someone who joined the company back then or a bit before that (attitudes take time to propagate and take hold) … but to me it seems there was a shift (i can’t put my finger on exactly what) in the company attitude that has not sat well with me.

Maybe I was just missing things early on, or maybe the shift is just all in my own mind…

I don’t know… but I know I don’t feel the same about the company as I did before the Xojo transition.

-Karen

Interesting that you should feel this way. I started to feel uncomfortable about a year before API 2.0. I noticed that my reports were piling up, and things that were important to me, were just being not taken care of.

API 2.0 was the big kick in nuts for me, but to top that off, the following conversation I had with the CEO didn’t go very well. My takeaway from that conversation with the CEO, was it is irrelevant to how much I pay, my needs are very specific and as such are a minority, while the needs of the many outweigh the few.
While other members of the team continue to be nice to me (Dana sent me a t-shirt at Christmas), the CEO hasn’t replied to my last few e-mails.

I accept that what I want isn’t mainstream and therefore irrelevant, as I have been treated like this by nearly every single company that I try to work with. An App Wrapper customer requested me to implement some automated additions for the development tool they used. I wanted some information from the tool vendor, to which I was told on several occasions that they have no interest in supplying me with information.

While I bitch about Apple and their CEO (who also doesn’t respond to my e-mails about bugs in iOS for 5 years), I have thankfully made enough friends within Apple to get information on certain topics that isn’t publicly documented (as the docs haven’t beenupdated in years).

I still have hope for Xojo, and Apple also.

I also want to help improve Xojo as it is far more capable that it seems, sadly I do need to make money, otherwise I’d just give away my App Kit for FREE.

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Losing Aaron Ballman was an inflection point. But honestly the loss of folks like him and Mars and many others doesn’t bother me as much as the forum censorship. Not even the bugs.

The deleting of comments is akin to saying that I can’t handle what was being said. As if I’m so easily swayed, not by my own experiences with the product, but by someone else’s. It really offends me.

You are forgetting something… When they changed from REALBasic to Real studio. I actually liked it then.

They should have stayed there, just improving desktop and web. Avoiding the New framework fiasco, the toy iOS and repeating the same mistakes over and over again, APi2 fiasco, toy Web2, toy Android…

That is how a company should be. Unfortunately for Xojo, The “many” usually is a single person who thinks it know what is best for all :crazy_face:

I replied to Dana and my post was deleted in seconds. I highly doubt my post was flagged. Dana just didn’t like it.

The whole thing about posts being flagged seems to be a way to deflect blame.

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What shall a MVP say to it? He can only try to help Xojo out of that situation. That you can’t believe that it was flagged, warned, flagged, warned, flagged and you are banned within minutes is one thing. But I had the same with the same Anthony Cyphers which sells his Plugins. You can not do anything against while it is their Forum and their company. If they want to do so they will do so. And in case of Christian: even if he says that he has nothing to do with that behavior I see that possibly this will fall back on him one day. In German we say Mitgehangen, mitgefangen. Means: you where with them when they done it so you will be matched also together with them. Or instead while they are away already. To be MVP can be a nice thing for a Plugin Seller. But it can be also a big problem.

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Maybe instead of labelling critics as “trolls” and trying to deal with things that way they could read this and figure out WHY all these folks are now “trolls”

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