I hope but doubt the core issues will be dealt with. ONE bug fix release does not make a pattern. What has changed regarding Quality Control?
If the boat has a hole you need to fix the hole before bailing out the water.
Guys, chill, stop turning on your own like hungry dogs. If anyone asked for that thread to be closed they would have done it, they were just waiting for an excuse to do so, as for it being unlisted that should probably be done but as the title has a typo (dept) then it wonât be found or impact xojo going forward as it falls out of recent memory.
Then remember that people were asking for and were happy that Christian became an mvp so someone with knowledge about implementing missing functionality had input into things. Now I donât know how that affects the decisions of xojo but I hope they at least use his knowledge to improve xojo and that can only be a good thing.
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Agreed
Not all MVPs are moderators
You should edit this as we dont discuss betas outside Xojoâs forums
Breaks their rules
Agreed
Christian ISNT the issue
He is, unfortunatrly, the lone âmessengerâ
Which is part of the issue some here have with Xojo
Implementing that Christian would have as MVP a chance to change the direction of their quality policy. But that was a misunderstanding. The MVP are not there to help the company to find the right way. They are there to a) promote them with their abilities and their business and b) to show hey new customer look we have a direct connection to this people. There is nothing what makes the world better while Chistian is MVP. and of coarse: I said that he asked for closing and people will understand it so. Thatâs a big difference. But it means also that Christian was writing it and nobody else. Following to you there where several people in the hope that they will find somebody writing please close it. That is not so while everybody could ask for it. Everybody. But it was the MVP and so I believe the people will also think and get as information out of that that Christian has the Power to move stuffs like this even if he is not moderator.
I think Xojo Inc. listened and changes course in a favorable direction. 2021r2 will be a bug fix release. And be sure I will remind them to prioritize bug fixes.
Christian maybe we could know but we are Pro users which are banned from the Forum and from the Tester Releases which are Part of the Pro contract which is in that way not fulfilled.
When I submitted that feature request I had little hope it might happen
But you never know if you dont try
Maybe other things are not ready to ship(Android previews would lead me to believe thats the case) ?
Web 2 definitely needs at least one bug fix release
I would hope they would make this a more common thing
Have they ever replaced Stephane ?
I dont see any new people on the team pages
Thats got to have an impact
For my clients I can fix a lot of things including writing replacements for framework classes. But I canât fix the IDE, the compiler or core functionality like data types.
Here I just quote Paul from the xDev Magazine, where he named it a bug fix release. I am always closely monitoring what gets public to avoid breaking an NDA by accident.
Well, we get to see things and comment on things before it goes public. You donât see those discussions and our complains, which may have made changes.
Sadly, no. I would welcome if they hire one or two younger developers to get a bit of fresh ideas to the team.
Yes. I expect they find and fix quite a few issues when doing their Web version of Feedback. Itâs good to eat their own dog food as the Americans say. Like the IDE written in Xojo itself, having Feedback as web app may help them see the problems easier.
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Christian you misunderstood: I would never say you all where not trying to find solutions with the company. But I said that MVP are not there to help the customers. They are from the view of the company mainly there while it is a nice to have solution to bind the MVP to the company and to show for marketing here, we have this people bound to our company like outstanding team members. It makes a big marketing effect.
While they need devs - thats perpetually been true - they need QA as well
The teams is extremlety tiny for what they try to achieve
Would have been good to do that BEFORE releasing web 2 and iron out those issue ahead of time
Web listbox for instance & trying to alter the column count dynamically might have been found earlier
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Also would have been a good idea to not kill Web 1.0 until Web 2.0 was solid.
That left Web in some kind of purgatory.
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When Paul started, he did a tremendous job, to walk himself through examples and rewrote lots of documentation. Since Paul does more work in development, a Q&A position may be a good start for a younger developer to start and learn the standards, projects and features.
Well, Xojo Inc. saw that Web 1 has no future and started a couple of years before release to build a replacement. A new foundation to replace the 10 year old one. We all know it went out a bit early and without a couple of promised features. The company is too small for two Web frameworks in parallel and you guys know that. I have a couple of Web projects still on version 2019 and they work well so far. Yes, with workarounds, but we can wait a few more Xojo releases till it gets to a better point.
As far as I see you either move on and build your web apps with something else, or you keep Xojo with either using 2019 version or trying Web 2 with 2021.
They might have revised that course of action IF they had tried making web feedback before releasing Web 2
Theyâd have seen where it worked and where it was weak before deciding it was good to go
20/20 hindsight I guess
From presentations they were talking about it 4 years before release 
please dont minimize it as âa couple featuresâ - that understates it quite badly
for a long time it was said there will be a way to migrate from web 1 to web 2
then there wasnt - that hurt a lot of people
web listbox âmissing a couple featuresâ is like saying a car misses âa couple featuresâ from being a tank
it missed badly and 2 years a year later it still needs a lot of love
there are long lists of missing features - not âjust a coupleâ
So while I appreciate your efforts to try & be a messenger for some kind of bridging of the gap it also requires realistically stating the current situation
Web 2 isnt ready 2 years a year after release
Some CANT wait until it gets better
Anyone hoping to âportâ a large app is finding its a rewrite not a port
Those arent trivial issues
EDIT : changed HOPPING to HOPING
EDIT : Web 2 is just about 1 year old NOT 2 !!! It still needs lots of love
WebListbox Iâm looking at you !
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That they deprecated Web 1.0 is not the problem. They could provide at least Bugfixing for the IDE. But even that they donât wanted. So long. And yes: they could not hold both frameworks. That is a problem of the company. You can not deprecate a System for a new one which does not work. In your eyes no problem to use the old one but for other people it makes problems. Security issues are not fixed and so on. Never mind. 2019R32 will be there for a long long time.
THIS.
Does Web 2 still send client events on a round trip to the server?
I was genuinely surprised Web 1 got any traction at all given the way it was implemented.
On the flip side I didnât understand why they didnât use Apache Cordova to target Android / iOS given that they could translate Xojo syntax to JS.
This is a feature. The code is compiled on the server.
But Web 2 the client does more in JavaScript.
When Web Edition was introduced, web development was very different. I remember chomping at the bit waiting for WebSocket to be standardized. We made due with what we had. That generally meant long-polling requests.
My belief is that Xojoâs Web 2.0 is about 5 years behind the times. What they should be introducing today is something more akin to what you suggest. If I were approaching the project today, Iâd be trying to get Xojoâs Web Edition producing Progressive Web Apps. Greg says they looked into it and found issues with Safari, which is fair. Still, if Xojo could do that, theyâd have something really magical.
As for Cordova, Xojo wonât do something like that. They require native controls and code. I personally believe they should be looking to switch to web-based controls like Electron does, not because I think itâs better, but because they have limited resources and the platforms change too fast. Theyâd make better use of their staff that way. Itâs really a question of wether they could gain enough customers than they would lose by making that transition, because I know many are with Xojo because of the native controls.
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this seems true across the board - not JUST web
Yeah thatâs my point. All platforms, one UI, one project. Theyâd abandon native controls and start eating Electronâs lunch. Theyâd get a ton of attention, because even Electron doesnât do mobile apps. You can take your Electron app to Cordova and get something similar, but even the big names like Slack and Discord have to maintain two codebases for their desktop+web vs mobile. Thereâs a market and Xojo could be the one to fill the role. Youâd end up designing your desktop UIs in a responsive manner, and Iâm not sure what itâd look like, but thatâs how Iâd try to make it happen.
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In your opinion, as youâre not an MVP, how would you know what input they have behind the scenes?
You missed c) the informal advisory position. They know their individual markets better than Xojo does, it can only be an advantage to have that first hand knowledge as an input into their processes.
In you opinion? I think you are wrong here, but only Christian would know if any of his input is making any real difference.
Michel wrote that it was going nowhere first. Christian was probably getting bored with the conversation as quite frankly so was I, it wasnât going anywhere and it has spiraled off topic as it common for threads on both forums and it just turned into tit for tat arguments.
It think you are seeing issues where you want to find them. If he was not an MVP then you have complained that heâs protecting his interests as he wants to keep selling plugins, people can find always find an angle to an argument.
Will you credit MVPs with that if/when itâs released? I doubt it because you donât know what impact they have/had. It will probably go down the line of âoh xojo buckled to the overwhelming voice of the forumâ even if they had this planned a long time ago, they literally canât win.
At the end of the day, itâs all irrelevant, Xojo will do what they want and go where they think they have the best chance of securing sales. They know where their ship is going, all the forum users and pro users are merely breathing on the tiller, some more than others.
If you donât like the destination, you can always jump ship (as many have), if you donât like how long the journey is taking, you can always jump ship (as many have) an if you try to drill holes in the hull then youâre going to be cast overboard (as a few have). It it what it is, itâs their forum, itâs their product.
However, what I do know is that if you use Xojo as your main business solution then you better be sure to have an exit strategy because as youâve seen for yourself, no-one is guaranteed to have a working project from one release to the next and upgrade paths are not always guaranteed to work as is evident in feedback.
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