Except… guess who defines the rules? 
Honestly you are like little kids in here. We get it. You don’t like the product or the direction it’s going in. You don’t like Geoff and have little time for the team behind him. You don’t agree with the priorities they set. You never like the releases they deliver and criticise every delivered feature.
I think some of you have real, deep seated, anger issues. It has basically become all consuming for you. You live to criticise and be negative. What an awful existence.
Xojo is better without you to be honest and I’m glad you are excluded from the official forums.
Cue the anger….
Markus why are belittling yourself like this - you have so much to offer the community but everything you do now is negative. Is it to garner new friends on here - if so I warn against it. Negativity is poison.
Davek I guess you are not aware that you are going to far. If you think xojo community is better without us: good. If you don’t like what we think: good. Then stay there do not read here and do not partizipate. You really think you can say what is right and what is wrong? No. Exactly that is the point. When the behavior of a company costs money. Then there is the point you stop to accept. And you want only positive? If something is garbage it is even if you are positive. So what is your interest writing here?
The second part: how can you dare to speak in that wise, how can you dare to do the diagnostic that we have anger issues? That shows exactly that issue.
So do is a davor: if you have arguments please write about. If you want to unsaubre people: do it in xojo the other forum. But be careful. There you’ll get kicked out for critics like you where doing here against us. That’s democratic. That’s freedom of speach. That’s something you don’t wAnt US to have.
You have shown time and again over the last few months that you always have to be right, always have the last word. So it’s better to look in your own mirror first.
Well, maybe it’s the experience of your posts here, on the Xojo forum, and on other platforms where you’ve given unfiltered vent to your anger in the past, personally insulting people and calling them “A*******”?
Contradict yourself much, you little ray of sunshine …? 
Pooping all over the place, followed by sanctimonious advice that you don’t follow yourself - do you need a hug? 
Sorry, but it is difficult to take such hypocritical “advice” seriously … 
See, what are you doing here? The same. Sorry but people like you are the Fundament for that kind of …
And tell me please where I was saying on another platform somebody is an asshole in the wise you where writing here now? Really interesting. But sorry, I can not take serious what hobbyists in psychology like you are believing is fact.
Again, I was ranting because I lost because of the behavior of xojo inc three man years of development. Maybe you have a hobby software corporation but I have to many employees to pay to ignore something like that.
And that’s the difference: I am in business since 87 and I need to make my turnaround. You can live without? Wonderful to be a hobbyist.
I mostly agree with Dave.
Some threads in this forum go too far in my opinion, and this one is an example.
1 Like
Well, you only have to go back once in the history of the Discord channel and you will find it.
It’s not that you rant, it’s how you rant. And just because I may not share your opinion here doesn’t automatically mean I’m a “hobbyist” 
1 Like
It has nothing to do with my opinion or thinking. But you will not even try to declare xojo for a professional grade IDE? While if I have to tell you that xojo is not fulfilling any industrial Standard. So how it shall be a professional IDE? Ah yes, it can not. And they are of course not certified as software venfor. Not fulfilling ANSI Standards means in words: not to use for industrial projects. Not to use in aviation industry. Not to use in medical industry.
So maybe you have a fulfilled Standard with it. I am not. But good. Do what you want to. If your business relies on it: your business. But I have no chance and that is not what I am mentioning it is what underwriter laboratories not accepting and what FDA is not accepting.
For someone self-centered and blinded by their own truth, anyone who disagrees will be seen as a child who knows nothing and only knows how to criticize and be negative. Denying any external opinion and blind to reality and reason. That is a real awful existence.
With all the stupid changes (instead of improvements or bug fixes) and the awful quality assurance this is when xojo actually needed more of those users who say things like they are, help in the forum, make beta testing, but… well, lets see what happens
The only thing clear is that If xojo is successful, it will be thanks to the decisions of the management, if it fails, it will surely be the fault of all those who warned of the stupid decisions.
3 Likes
No, true. A hobbyist is ignoring the truths and acting like his Solution world is the best. I don’t say Java is the best or C++ is the best. What I say is: there are alternatives which are reliable, stable and maintained in long term, where the documentation of an old version is not disappearing and where new versions are not loosing half of their functionality. That’s why I believe that developers which are ignoring all that facts are not really developing in an industrial environment and that they are not relying on industrial Standards like Ansi/ISO or DIN/EN/ISO Standards. That IS the difference. It is a World outside the believing of a vendor that he can do it without the reaction of the standards: they are statically and from the moment of deprecation on the Software is not to use. While there is still not the needed functionality in Web 2.0 it is not possible to use cause it is not a production status. So. What now. Xojo is out of Range for projects where the fulfillment of Software Standards is not only recommended but part of the project. People which can not even get that situation which has nothing to do with believing but with the national laws from USA over Canada, Asia, Australia, South America, Arabia, Europe, Russia, short: all over the world.
So I am sorry that I called you a citizen. I have to change this: you may be professional developer but you have no Idea about Software Standards and the conditions to fulfill them in case of Ansi, Iso or Gost-R Standards. I have and while I have I know that I can not rely a production on that.
Given enough time, everybody who uses Xojo for any serious work will find themselves in here, with us. It is a law of nature that customers who are frustrated with the ever declining quality control, will voice their concerns on the main forum, and eventually be silenced by management.
The day is coming when Xojo Inc. leadership will be unable to hide their quality from the fresh subscribers and when that happens they will face a total loss of confidence and associated revenue collapse.
Nobody here wants this, but it is what one gets when they choose a fast buck and customer churn over actually delivering the goods. If you do find Xojo is working well for you, outstanding… now go away.
Xojo has richly earned this criticism and the more of it that reaches the consumer’s eyes the faster they will deliver the goods, or be ignored by new prospective customers who take one look at the mountain of dirty laundry and avoid it like a grilled Vaseline and bodyhair sandwich.
What’s wrong with the friends I have? Moving a lot I learned that in each place you can find one, maybe two really good friends - the kind that you are friends with like forever, that you share deep and meaningful conversations with - and you loose all the cruft, the people who you know by name or reputation, but never really got close to. So I have a lot of very good friends, more than my fair share probably, but not a big social circle - and I like it that way. Smalltalk is really getting on my nerves these days and feels like a complete waste of time.
And if you think you can make friends on the internet, or anyone here is your or my friend, then you are most likely deluding yourself. I’m under no such miscomprehension. Sometimes we share opinions, sometimes we disagree, and we are fine with that - because getting to know these other points of view is a chance to see something from a different angle, get a wider perspective, and improve your understanding.
And that’s why, when you stifle dissent and criticism, you start making mistakes - because nobody is left to give you that different opinion. And in the long run, these businesses loose users and go under.
I have seen Xojo make remarkably stupid decisions over the last 7 years, and turn from a solutions- and engineering driven business into a hype- and marketing driven one. I’ve seen more and more people leave, and what was a trickle has turned into a torrent over the last 2-3 years. What hurt Xojo the most is that they drove their professional users away, those that not only paid but also contributed the most - Bob Keeney (ActiveRecord, Full Text Control, Shorts, etc), Axel Schneider (lots of little gems), Tim Dietrich (Aloe Express, Luna, etc), Hal Gumbert (Xanadu), Alain Bailleul (AlwaysBusyCorner, fantastic tutorials, ABmaterials) etc.
Have you looked at the number of users on Xojo’s forum? Have you analysed the data? I have - because I’m a bloody Scientist:
New users per day:
That’s about 40 new users a month - most of which disappear after a post or two, but are still counted.
On Xojo’s forum you seem to have about 10 people “online” at any given time (at least it was before they switched forum software) - on B4x forum it’s around 50 users and 450 guests. Even two of the VisualBasic 6 forums I checked have around 300 people online.
Google trends:
Want to tell me again that everything is nice and peachy in Xojo-Land? The way Xojo is run it is going under - and that is a shame. Google and Microsoft are gearing up their cross-platform strategies, Apple might follow suit (or not - you never know with Apple), other players are moving in - and Xojo is asleep at the wheel, and instead of making their core product stable and successful have tinkered and introduced so many half-baked features that it has become a complete mess (the renaming of everything is simply idiotic).
But hey, I know where you are coming from - we ALL have been there. If you don’t believe anything I say, trust me on this.
[added Alain Bailleul]
4 Likes
Btw, I haven’t seen you contribute much, if anything - whereas I send off my 60th article for xDev last week. How about you step up and do something useful? I’m sure Marc Zeedar would appreciate a new contributor. Or write some useful tutorials - there is even a tutorials section on this forum. Mine is in there: Best programming practises: the ListBox. Waiting for yours.
2 Likes
Sorry dad !
We dislike how he treats customers - stating things that end up being misleading like we’ll support your Web 1.0 apps and a few other easy to pluck examples
I dont think ANYONE has said they HATE geoff
Hell He fired me and I would not say I hate him
I dislike the leadership he provides
The comment about the team I’m not going to touch as I have my own disappointments there but they are personal
Curious YOU feel compelled to come here and berate us about “bad behaviour” 
And FWIW there are NO banned users here - 0
We have a couple who have asked to be removed but thats it
2 Likes
FWIW you can ignore an entire thread
Part of the difficulty is that the ONLY place you CAN have anything like this … contentious … difference of opinion is here
Xojo shuts them down
2 Likes
Dont forget @Alwaysbusy , The https://alwaysbusycorner.com/ was a great source of knowledge until he left Xojo.
All this users and many others not only allow the half baked features of xojo usable, they had blogs, training, helping newbies in the forum, they actually added great value to the product, tey actually got new clients for xojo. Their departure it’s a loss for xojo.
If we skip the first half of 2014 to avoid the hype of the novelty and advertising, and also with a worldwide search in all categories, we can have a clear idea of the Xojo relevance in the world:
But at this point I’m sure that @anon50707693 will say that also google is anger at Xojo 
2 Likes
Thanks - added Alain Bailleul
2 Likes
Alwaysbusy aka Alain is even now a good source cause he was building two web frameworks for B4J so that you can even build PWA with B4J and he is one of the most service oriented persons I know
1 Like