Web Framework 2.0 Discussion

one thing that I was going to add, one of the advantages of me building my web app with graffitisuite is that its up to Anthony to do all the hard work to transition his controls to web 2.0.

In a way I would have guessed he’d be rapidly working on those and trying to beta them along side the new betas

Would seem a shame to get a new release then have to wait some extra period of time to get your hands on betas of his new controls

Guess we’ll see what transpires there

For me this entire cycle is a yawn as I literally do not use or care about Web 2.0 in any way
So far there doesnt seem to be anything of interest in there for non-Web users
But I guess we knew that going in

I’ve had a very good experience working with Anthony, somewhere he mentioned that he is working hard to have his suite ready for 2.0.

When I was thinking about purchasing Graffiti Suite I was constantly delaying it since the three main things I need it for are: Graphs, DatePicker and PDF and these things are going to be incuded in 2.0 (ok not pdf but I could have purchased that control by itself).

Then I realized that I will be done with this app before 2.0 is released so I purchased the suite. I believe this app will remain 1.0 for a looooong time. I need to deliver the thing and the Michael Angelo line of I deliver it when it’s ready is not something I can use :wink:

I’m sorry being away for a long time and not being able to explain, because I thought it would be obvious what I intended to say. But as Norm detailed, the new things comes with new bugs. So, my usual behavior is to wait a bit to see them appear and be fixed, and not to embrace the fresh and broken releases ASAP and regret later. We had releases spliting and joining strings wrongly, we had Currency math failing, we had printing failing after printing engine changes, we had Posgresql leaking resources from retaining auto prepared statements, etc. I won’t use such releases.

Xojo cant promise dates

Unless a version is going to drop in a matter of days promising that ā€œWeb 2.0 will be ready by July 1ā€ would be foolish as they either ship it in whatever state its in to say they hit the date (and maybe shipped it with lots of bugs) OR do not give a date and we all patiently wait (my preferred mode but … ) but with everyone getting increasingly anxious about that new version

They’re in a tough spot that way

And its worse when they are dependent on a third party like with the LLVM tool set
While its a great compiler suite IF Xojo isnt working on things like linkers on their own and pushing things forward then they are totally dependent on that project - and that projects priorities are NOT in building linkers for macOS apps on Windows :slight_smile:

Or if the project scraps an entire branch and says ā€œhey this branch stinks we’re going to redo the entire thingā€ - which happened at one point - then again Xojo is dependent and maybe cant deliver

Its a hard position

all good and no worries. Being someone who is dyslexic, sometimes I misunderstand what I am reading. Your explanation is perfect! thank you for clarifying.

Yes I understand that. I think I was not clear in what I meant.

I (me, myself) can’t tell the customer that I will deliver when it’s ready.

I was hoping I would be able to move the project I’m currently working on to 2.0 and benefit from some of the things that are being promissed: better performance, nicer UI, etc. But I simply can’t wait.

At one point I was expecting that Xojo woud put a date on delivery of 2.0 and I thought that date would be right after XDC. But it didn’t happen and I understand that delivering something that is not ready would be shooting themselves in the foot.

As I mentioned last night on a post on the replacement for Xojo thread I purchased a Pro license yesterday. While it may seem dumb to pay for something I’m not requiring today as I did had a valid Web license before upgrading it is my way of supporting the effort tha the guys at Xojo are doing to ship things as soon as possible. I can’t help with the development but I can help them financially by paying a couple hundred dollars for something I hope to receive in the future. I’m not a philantropist and I certainly do not have money to burn (quite the contrary I’m short on cash this days) but I really really want Xojo to succeed :slight_smile:

Unfortunately this has become so common many folks wont jump on a .0 release
And thats true not just in Xojo’s word but in a lot of software

People are still finding API 2 bugs in code that shipped as part of 2019r2.1
Thats not a great way to convince anyone that ā€œYou should move your code up because its so much betterā€ … and full of brand new bugs ?
They need to have a 100% code coverage test suite for ALL of the non-UI portions of the framework

Who cares if the style is easier to read - the bugs are killers for moving any code up to API 2

Developer tools and the frameworks they use and create HAVE to be reliable

I do not mind if they take a long time to deliver a solid Web 2.0 with the next Xojo release. What I do not understand: why they do not release regular bug fix releases for the latest Xojo version, let’s say once every month. I think most users would be wery happy about that. There are still unfixed bugs introduced with 2019.2, why not fix at least those? The most important feature for me is a stable and (mostly) bug free tool.

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I think a LOT of peopel want them to do exactly this
Take the time ythey need to deliver a solid product

I suspect logistics and manpower
You have to put whatever bug fixes into that branch, rebuild, retest (do you do a 1 week alpha/beta for these) etc ?
All that takes time & manpower to do those tasks