Total BS.
puh this is escalatingā¦
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Ivan. Always total bullshit. Normal. What shall I saY? People like that are never getting. Cobol for example. It is a secure language. With secure compilers. So what?
Bullshit Ivan. Total Bullshit. Look on their own Bugtracker to get out what is not running on this beautiful IDE and Beautifcompiler. Look on their policy and their Behavior so you can see what is their policy to behave with Customers. And if you could read: I have nothing against using his tool. He shall use the actual Version of the Tool and not years old versions for business critical Software. Thatās it.
Again you try to use this Bullshit Bingo arguments. Modern companies are not using this Bullshit from the Web and spending millions to hold it in use. For what? They are not so stupid. Companies I know with 300 to 30000 employees are not doing exactly that. There is no need for. Only in your phantasy.
Not by personal opinions or fantasy but FACTS, according to Reuters, 43% of the core banking systems in the United States are built on COBOL. 95% of those XP ATMS also use backend COBOL code.
You should know that IBM maintains Cobol under security conditions and there is no need not to trust Cobol. Also only in your phantasy. On the other side: for the banking industry there are still security updates from MS for XP. And they have a real high security standard for this. In Europe you will not find that anymore.
Bullshit. People like you are producing insecure applications. That is no question. There are enough evidences which are describing the risks. That are the risks of your customers? Poor guys.
I am at least not believing that I will write with a crappy IDE and a crappy framework cutting edge Software on high security level. What you try to do here is anyhow Bullshit. I try to find out, how comes people like you are thinking they are right with their opinion? Okay. Letās explain it so: we can look how many people are using Xojo for their applications and which big applications written with Xojo. After we can look on C++. Or C#. Or Java, Or C. Or Go (yes, even Go). Or Python. Ooops. There are no arguments which are really working on your side. Sorry. Bullshit.
You have a wrong Idea behind. The companies in most cases holding the Software in case of security actual but they want to get browser access. Is that a good solution? I have no Idea. I believe not. But is that not secure? Depends how the solution around is builded. Simple. Not an argument at least how you try to use it.
My first experience with Web1.0 sucked. I was using Realbasic from 2004 and followed the development of web because it offered me new possibilities for my CRM. That did not happen because Web1.0 was not mature enough and had too many bugs. So I canāt possibly understand why you would choose Web1.0 as a platform to develop something for multiple users for?
I can understand thatās frustrating, but my experience is different: I developed my CRM system in Realbasic in 2004 because I was looking for a cross platform option. Our company was in the process of switching to new computers and we were switching from Windows to Mac. Eventually we made the switch quicker then I anticipated, so my CRM only ran on Mac and up until now we are all very happy with it, being able to not only do CRM stuff on it, but also our planning, project management and invoices. Thatās over 20 years of using software without big problems.
Man, you can be inconsequent. One time itās a crime to run old software and now youāre saying itās perfectly oke.
Why should I use the actual version of the tool (by which you probably just mean: the latest version)? WHY? Xojo 2021 is working perfectly and there are only improvements in the newer versions that apply to using the software and the new 2.0 API. Can you mention one security aspect that my software would have because itās written in Xojo 2021 R3? Iām not going to pay for a new license if my old license is doing perfectly what I want it to do?
Our own (Dutch) government is doing it. Our Tax Office is stuck with decades old software, having thrown millions at companies that would create better new software and the result was that the new software was vastly inadequate and they had to fall back on the old stuff. People like you have never heard of the saying āif it aināt broken, donāt fix itā. Software can run for decades if it wasnāt for people like you overly updating everything and trying to pull every small company to unnecessary levels of security. In my company weāre still running on a local server, while several IT guys have asked us āwhy not move to the cloud?ā. Because itās not needed. We backup to the cloud and we backup locally, but our database run local and files are stored local. Fast and no cursing when the internet is down, we can continue working and weāre not dependent on some server farm.
You keep saying that, but you canāt prove shit. Small businesses and consumers do not have any security risks when using our software. I can imagine that if I was running the cooling system of a nuclear reactor on some Xojo app there would be risks, but our users donāt use our apps to run their nucleair reactor, they print labels for their jukebox. They look up customer info for a guy that has bought something or calculate and print an offer. These users experience security issues when opening their mail, NOT while they use our apps.
I concur with Ivan: there is no founded info in any of what you say, just a tantrum. I would advise you to take it a bit less personal, otherwise you may need to release your sourcecode sooner than you anticipated. 
cobol is still in complete Maintenance and not āold Softwareā. There is a differrence between security of Cobol Applications and security of Xojo applications.
While the with the tool delivered framework needs actualization which you get only with the last version and not with years old versions. So security updates of the framework you are delivering with every Xojo application are only actual and secure with the latest versions of Xojo and not with the oldest ones. Thatās why.
Possibly the Dutch gouvernment is stucked with old Software for Tax Management. At least security updates are done as the dutch gouvernment tells. The ols Software is old in itās concept but still maintained. So changing to new Software isnāt important. Security is. There is also no need to move to the cloud. You can run it locally. Or you can work with Clouds. There is no difference. Security is a must have
I guess that you should stop thinking about how I am, what I am and in. which condition I am. That is definitely not your business and you are bad in it. I am not taking anything personal. There is a difference between us I think.
Funny because thatās exactly what youāre doing:
Youāre stating that Xojo āISā bad and everything created with it is also. Itās not, itās your evaluation of it. For your expectations and demands Xojo is not the solution you need. I even agree with that. For my wishes and expectations it IS. You canāt deny that. Itās still a free world and I write my software in GW Basic if I would prefer that. Iām not asking any money for any of my software, so my users will not have any grounds to make demands of me. They will use my software if they like it and if they donāt, theyāll erase it. There is not one single founded fact that proves my software will be dangerous whatsoever for any of my users, even the company that runs my CRM. The only thing I heard from you about that is āold frameworkā¦ dangerousā¦ blablablaā¦ā. No facts.
So stop your childish tantrums about Xojo, itās just pathetic. Use whatever makes you happy and get on with it. Youāre lingering in your bad Xojo experiences and you keep complaining about it, itās almost funny. Just leave the people that are still using Xojo be and stop painting them like stupid, ignorant people that are lost in the claws of some evil corporation. We donāt need help, weāre perfectly happy as we are. And if Xojo should go bankrupt, so be it. Itās a hobby for me, so Iāll survive.
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Again. No. I am stating that securer applications needing secure environment needing actual and in case of security updated Libraries which you will get only with an actual Xojo. Even they will react to security problems with changes in the libraries. Your customers are not participating in this enhancement of security while you decide: no need for it.
I am not painting you like stupid. I only remember to the needs. You are the one ifnoring the minimum standards.
And with this we come back to the core of this discussion: your customers (and you) have other needs than mine (and me).
I can fulfill my needs with an older edition of Xojo. I write freeware so Iām not going to invest in an expensive new license for that. I buy a new license when I run into problems with OS updates on the CRM computers (happened twice in the last 20 years) so the company is paying for it. Then Iāll lag behing again until the same thing happens. So in a way Iām updating only when needed. For my needs Xojo is also fast enough. Iām fine with this situation and working without problems or hazards like this for over 20 years.
What Iām not fine with is you stating that with a somewhat older version of Xojo āI am getting all my users into troubleā. Thatās just not true and is only a way to enforce your statement that my choice is wrong. Thatās also why I used the comparison to cars, phones and stuff: some people drive a 20 year old car for daily use, others need a brand new every two years. Is the one choice more dangerous than the other? That depends on many aspects. Itās not black and white. Iāve seen people in deadly accidents because they were reading the newspaper behind the wheel of their brand new Tesla in Autopilot mode. Others have been driving the same car for 20 years without any accidents. They probably drive less miles than the guy with the new car, but that is exactly the difference between you and me.
The core issue is the quality of Xojo which is extremely poor.
Too many bugs. More bugs being introduced in each release.
If you are ok with bugs have fun. Itās not acceptable for Professional devs.
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I only said: you are ignoring the risk. Not more not less. What ever you say will not change this.
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This. 10000%.
No 
I really enjoy @thorstenstueker idiosyncratic use of English and ( most of the time ) I can understand what heās trying to get across.
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Haha, two peas in a pot. Good luck with that attitude and Iām glad Iām not your customer thatās overpaying for every useless update.
More like Xojo making you rewrite form API 1 to 2. Geoff will screw you at some point.
I donāt have that experience, Iām not having any issues with bugs. But TBH: Iām not a heavy user and I do not develop in other current languages so I have nothing to compare it to. I guess you have and by comparing it find itās of a less quality than other languages, having more bugs.
Iām working with Xojo because I like it and liked it for the past 20 years. Iām used to the environment and I produce relatively small apps mostly for Mac and one app also for Windows (with most users using the Windows version). No complaints there, from me nor my users. You might want more of it, more than it can give, but if thatās the issue: move on to something else. I guess youāre both professionally creating software, Iām not, and Xojo has reached itās limits for you. For me it has given me the tools to build a CRM system that goes far beyond what I envisioned for it in 2004, when I started building it. Sure, I sometimes want to do things that go beyond what Xojo can do (I very much wanted to do a VU meter in my audio software, but wasnāt able to figure it out, bet you can do that with C++ and Java but itās not a deal breaker for me). So again: for me, itās enough and my users are content too.
I think they learned the hard way with Web1.0 to 2.0 that they canāt do that with the desktop software. Web1.0 was immature and relatively new, got a lot of complaints, so they threw it all away and started fresh with 2.0, but I doubt they will do that with the desktop environment because thatās been around for so long. But if they decide to do that, Iāll cross that bridge when I come to it.
Weirdly LOTS of people here like Xojo
At least the IDEA
But their experience has been very different
My own has been one example
I have a client that has an iOS app that wants and android counterpart
They waited years for Android to be released initially as there was not urgency at the time to have an Android version
Now, the iOS devices they use have been discontinued
No big deal right ? Weāll just āportā the iOS app to Android & weāre good
It took a week to port and get a version that would even compile
And I kept working - LOTS of things that work on iOS dont exist or dont work on Android
TCP Sockets ? They existed but were completely non-functional
Lots of weird vague compiler errors on code that compiles flawlessly on iOS
Its now been over a year of trying every successive versions and we still do not have an Android version that works or compiles despite Xojo releasing several updates.
And this is only one of a few examples I have
I have to test EVERY client app on EVERY release of Xojo to see IF I can update since they often include silent code breaking changes (like Xojo: Account Login)
Or things like Xojo: Account Login
But there are other bugs that are more critical in the updated versions that mean I cant update
That YOU havent run into things like this is good luck - NOT good management by Xojo
There is a LOT of their code that isnt adequately tested before it gets shipped
And that is one of the things people run into
One version works. Next version doesnt and Xojo is unaware of the regression
They could fix that by having a sufficiently complete regression test suite
But they dont
Xojo could rock but it never will be under Geoffās āleadershipā. He said out loud that Pros are not his focus. Xojo just is not a reliable vendor.
I do believe Mac desktop development is their sweet spot. I have only developed for Mac Desktop and only the last few years also an app for Windows. I noticed that for Windows I had to adjust some interface things like button hight and editfield properties, but nothing really strange.
I also played around a bit with Web and iOS but was completely not impressed with that, I would definately prefer another language for that. I was thinking about buying a license that included Web and iOS, but changed my mind when I tested it, so I can see your problems with that. It might also explain the difference between my good experiences (mostly Mac and a little Windows) and your bad experiences (Web & iOS).