Here as well
Nationally we have at least 5 major parties
Some make the Democrats look like centrists at best
Some make the Republicans look like centrists
I was watching TV minutes ago and they were talking about how old some US leading persons are…
Donald (74), Mike (61 youngster with white hair), Nancy (80) and others…
This is the Kingdom of the Old
(Mandrake the magician have a story using that name; info here: http://www.mandrakewiki.org/index.php?title=Kingdom_of_the_Old).
And they are meant to lead a country, preparing the future for the young generations ?
What do they remember from they youth ?
That in the 1950’s things were awesome ! 
Why do I have to think of Footloose? 
I enjoyed very much the youtube videos. That senator did a great job, and those who made the reports discussed in the videos did a very poor one.
But where do you want to get with that? You wouldn’t mean to say that because those specific reports were so bad what they tried to show doesn’t exist, right?
An concerning the book you cited, would you please summarize its conclusions? You can’t expect us to read a book to get your point.
Julen
Hello,
Literally every study that claims that there is a gender paygap that is solely determined by gender is rubbish. Why? The reseachers do not take into acount important factors (men work more hours, men do harder and more dangerous jobs, etc.). So as a result they only see one thing: „woman equals less pay“. That is a correlation. But what the researchers do is claim a causality: „Because you are a woman you earn less.“
So: A causality is produced from a correlation between gender and wage. That is scientifically simply wrong. The question remains: Are those researchers doing this willfully or are they simply that incompetent?
What the senator does is something that seems to never happen at universities*: Asking those „researchers“ what they actually measured, asking what they actually did with taxpayer money, because then the whole thing falls apart.
*Because: Don’t mess with the feminists, if you want to keep your job.
From the book description (Amazon):
„Controversial and exhaustively researched, gender expert Warren Farrell’s latest book Why Men Earn More takes as its stunning argument the idea that bias-based unequal pay for women is largely a myth, and that women are most often paid less than men not because they are discriminated against, but because they have made lifestyle choices that affect their ability to earn. Why Men Earn More argues that while discrimination sometimes plays a part, both men and women unconsciously make trade-offs that affect how much they earn. Farrell clearly defines the 25 different workplace choices that affect women’s and men’s incomes – including putting in more hours at work, taking riskier jobs or more hazardous assignments, being willing to change location, and training for technical jobs that involve less people contact – and provides readers with specific, research-supported ways for women to earn higher pay. Why Men Earn More, with its brashness in the face of political correctness, is sure to ignite a storm of media controversy that will help to make this thoroughly pragmatic expose.“
See book at Amazon: Amazon
Says who? You?
True - because sitting at a desk is MUCH more dangerous for men than for women … 
So as a result they only see one thing: „woman equals less pay“. That is a correlation. But what the researchers do is claim a causality: „Because you are a woman you earn less.“
And you assume (see your “harder and more dangerous” comment) that they compare between widely different jobs and organisations (eg oil rig workers vs kindergarden teachers). An assumption that has even less claim to causality than correlation and is completely wrong as the studies are about “is the same being paid for the same work” - the comparison is between men and women doing the same work.
At least pay attention before sprouting off.
So: A causality is produced from a correlation between gender and wage. That is scientifically simply wrong. The question remains: Are those researchers doing this willfully or are they simply that incompetent?
Oh Dear - you are clearly not a Scientist.
The only correct statement in your post is that a correlation is not the same as causality.
First off - the women and the senator were clearly talking past each other. If you have an income for a half-time job and you “annualise” it to make it comparable - aka if you earn $10,000 for a 20h/week half-time job then that is equivalent to $20,000 for a 40h/week full-time job - then that data show a 15.5% gender pay gap (see min 6:30-7:30 in the first video). Calculating an “hourly rate” does not change that.
The second question is whether men work 15.5% longer to account for the difference - that is not the case as the data for the study are based on the contracts that stipulate what you earn for a full or half time job, not on the income that you get for the hours actually worked (and the women did a terrible job of explaining as they didn’t seem to get what the senator was getting at).
If you WOULD take the additional hours into account (so calculate and compare the actual take home pay, standardised to 40h/week) then the gender pay gap would actually increase as overtime is usually paid at a higher rate (in Germany it is +50%).
A question NOT asked is if most women actually CAN work longer hours - it is just assumed that it is a choice for them, but they don’t work “just” a half-time job because they want to lounge around, they do it because they usually have to take care of the kids and household. While most men I know stretch out on the sofa at 8 pm the women take care of the kids, do the dishes, do the ironing - so tell me again that women work less?
Where women CAN work full-time (eg PhD students without kids) most women work a LOT harder than most men - they have to to be considered “equally” good.
What the senator does is misrepresentation and playing to stereotypes - they fit your stereotypes so he is “asking the right questions”?
Don’t be such a dinosaur and at least try to be a bit more critical of your own assumptions …
Well, I provided a whole book written by the probably greatest expert in this research field and 3 videos.
Here is another link to a German newspaper article (which at least takes into account some of the most important cofounding factors):
FAZ
Wrong. They looked at the hours in the contracts - not the real work hours (which are higher). It is a well known fact that men do more extra hours then women. Those extra hours do not show up in the contract (in the contract there are only 40 hours) but the men work maybe 45 hours. The earnings for the whole 45 hours is taken into account by these researchers in their study, but they only calculate with 40 hours of work (because that is what the contract says). Because of this totally wrong math they come to the result that men earn more per hour then women. The senator even asks them, why they did not use the real work hours (since the data is available), but they only deviate and give no real answer.
The thing is, every study that claims a huge gender wage gap is done this way. Look at the data, look at the math, see for yourself. Some researchers tried to point out the errors in such studies, but they get attacked personally (for example calling them sexist). So there is not much open discussion on this topic in science.
An interesting fact: Do you know why men are working more extra hours then women? Because they have a woman and children at home. The men work extra hours, so their women can stay at home to take care of the kids. So why attac those men? Life is a struggle and men and women had always fought together, each with its own strengths. Both men and women are working hard.
It is interesting to see young female students talk about such things that we live in an oppressive patriarchy where women earn less - simply because they are women, while at the same time their dad is working countless extra hours to buy them a car, and pay their rent for a little flat in the city where the university is, etc. Do you see the irony in it? 
So yes, there is a wage gap. But you have to look at the details to see that is not because of a systematic exploitation of women (what those and many other researchers claim) but because of how life itself works (for examply only women can gave birth to children).
Depends on your definition, but you can come to visit me at my university where I work and teach. I can send you a private message with the address if you want.
You know we could find many books supporting your ideas as well as ours on this topic. The same goes for the videos which anyway, as I said before, don’t prove anything.
You are completely right, that’s why I said the reports were bad. But, what that does prove? (other that the reports need to be improved).
First, nobody is attacking men (why do you feel there is an attack? is it because you are comfortable with the current situation and you don’t want it to change?). Second, that paragraph of yours says it all: you think women taking care of the children while men work is how every family should organize, which is the (traditional) view many people share. And do you think women have the same possibilities in their professional carrier under that premise?
I don’t.
Now, a young woman marries a hard working man, the man tells her to stay at home taking care of the children, leave aside her carrier and let him provide for them all. 5 years later the husband dies (or whatever reason for the couple to separate). Do you see the problem that woman just got into? This gives the man a position of power, and the woman a dependence.
Another fictional situation (well, it happens at my workplace): At my workplace women and men a paid exactly the same, they can have the same positions, etc., in general. If we want to get to a position of higher responsibility we compete with our other colleagues and our professional achievements are what determines who gets that position. So far all good. Now, when a woman gets pregnant (usually she doesn’t get pregnant alone, there is a man involved) SHE has to stop working for some time, it can be a relatively short time if she doesn’t breastfeed the child or it can go up to a quite long time if any problem arose during the pregnancy that required her to stay at home and then THEY decide that breastfeeding is the best for the child (which is a commonly accepted where I live). So, SHE (not her husband) will have a long period of her carrier without any achievement to compete, whereas her husband will have no penalty for having had a child. Moreover, you want HER to take care of the children after breastfeeding is finished as well.
There is no irony here, the fact is that even in jobs like mine where women should in theory have the same possibilities, if they want to have a family they often don’t, whereas men having a family usually spend less time at home. This is something that is changing, slowly, and that will continue to change, but it will take a very long time before the actual possibilities are equal for women.
And we are only considering relatively rich/advanced countries. If we considered poor countries the claim you mentioned about women being exploited would be correct.
For me, the big problem with the pay-gap debate is that, to make things simple, we talk in ‘general’ while this issue has a lot of variables.
I do think that in many cases a woman with the same results as a man, could receive less pay, but taking those cases and saying that the problem is everywhere, at least for me, is not accurate.
I do think that in some areas the men have more opportunities to advance in their careers, so women need to work harder to try to compete, this is a flaw in society that it is hard to break. In my lifetime I will not see a female soccer player that will get paid as good as the best male soccer player, is that fact only for their gender? I don’t think so. Media not promoting female soccer, not getting the same rating/followers, etc. all are part of the problem.
Anyway, like many other topics, it is treated as ‘general’ but should be discussed as specific cases.
Look,
I only state what the statistical data says. I did my research. Is citing the facts already sexism? Because sadly, that is the level where discussions at universities have sunken now. There are research fields in social sciences where only one research outcome is allowed, because everything else would be politically incorrect. Try to fight against it and you can loose your job. If yo want to get an impression how rotten the whole system already is, watch some videos from Prof. Gad Saad at Youtube:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCLH7qUqM0PLieCVaHA7RegA/videos
He has many videos where he talks about science ans education. While he talks mostly about Canada and the US, the same applies to Germany too.
I can say my experience is that this does exist.
Without needing to do studies of work hours etc.
Ladies I used to work with held, ostensibly, the same position as me, at the same level of experience (actually one was more experienced than I was) and they made less than I did.
Thats not right
In the book I cited above this is also described. In most fields it is illegal to pay women less for the same amount of work and having the same expertise. So there can not be a wage gap because of gender (if there is, take legal action). But there are fields, where you have to negotiate with your future employer about the height of your salary. Men often negotiate more aggresively then women (they want more money) and they also take the risk to not get the job by doing so. So yes, what you describe can happen. The thing about statistics is, that you have ten-thousands or maybe hundreds-of-thousands of data points and while there are individual deviations in both directions (women earn less then men / men earn less then women) the data shows that there is no pay gap* that is only determined by gender.
*If you take into account most cofounding factors the paygap is between 2% and less then 1% (depending on which study you read).
This does not stop the mass media to publish every couple of weeks an article, that says that women earn less then men only because of their gender. So everybody heard about it dozens of times. That is also what kids at school and students at universities learn. My son had to write an essay when he was 13 about the „Gender wage gap“. He learned at that time at school, that we live in an oppressive patriarchy, where women are exploited by men since thousands of years.
Here an already legendary video about the subject (the discussion about the pay gap starts at minute 5):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aMcjxSThD54
Dude, we get it, you’re passionate about this.
But PLEASE stop the personal attacks.
Surely you are able to make you point without being insulting to individuals…
it’s frankly offensive, odiously unpleasant and unnecessary; we’re all adults here.
What’s offensive and unpleasant Stam is that people like you allow/don’t say anything to others like Markus, Norman, Beatrixwillius, etc. when they insult others and make false claims about them but then you speak up when someone gives them a taste of their own medicine and you don’t like it.
Grow some balls and become more honest.
Thanks.
PLEASE !
Post some facts - not opinion pieces by Sean
But actual provable facts
A few examples
Are several Republican governed states actually suing to overturn the last remaining bits of the ACA ?
Did the Russians , with or without active cooperation of Trumps campaign, interfere in the 2016 election ?
Never mind the tapes of Trumps downplaying Covid
I personally love the Senate report because that is a Republican led committee that said “yes the russians did interfere”
The Senators did their damned jobs
Seriously pull your head out of the sand and read & listen more widely than Fox
Fox lies to you more than you care to admit
1 Like
What’s funny Norman is that normally I don’t even watch or listen to Fox.
I don’t have TV.
Only recently during these communications have I googled for information and found those videos from Fox.
I posted them as examples.
Btw, the video clips that were shown were factually made by Democrats.
Those are not merely opinions.
Why you think so is bizarre.
No matter what anyone posts you Norman and Markus will never change your narrow minds.
That’s ok.
It’s ok…
So nobody can tell me how to quote reply?
One way is to select the text that you want to quote and click the quote indicator above it. It will look something like this:
Awesome, thank you Alberto.
We knew that already 
Just a little demonstration of how these “clips” you put so much value on work …