Silly discussion

Welcome to the zone where you can talk more freely than on TOF in a polite way … :wink:

Thought I phrase the welcome a bit more precisely for a fellow German with a reputation of being outspoken at times … :wink:

And be aware that messages are not considered private on this forum … :roll_eyes: … I didn’t know until 20 min ago and I have been here for a while …

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All Answers to Discourse Software this Site uses in case of private messages sent by users to other users and the visibility by admins:

This shows clearly: an Admin can look private messages. This is not an E-Mail-Server with secure messages. That kind of privacy you can get using Discord for personal communication to other messengers. Discourse is a forum Software, sometimes it is needed for the team of a community to be able to read that messages. That does not mean that Norman reads all the posts written by users here. That means he could if he would or if he needs to.

Small hint: Markus, all Forum platforms allowing Admins to read Messages ended over their platforms. Different to TOF for example you can write at least here about otherLanguages and Systems. But at the end: also on TOF, they also use Discourse, they can read the Messages.

It is nothing made by Norman. It is a Software to build up community communication used out of the Box. There is no special Norman Palardy Module to be able to read that posts. It is implemented by Discourse.

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TOF stands for The Other Forum, I assume?

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You’re on the right way, yes. TOF stands for the other forum so nobody needs to say vendor name forum but tof.

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Thorsten, as usual you are missing the point: Norman did not simply “read” XojoPro’s message to him but published a screenshot of it in a thread - and then everyone piled on “messages aren’t private” because they don’t like XojoPro and don’t care. Propriety be damned.

I find that rather repulsive on all levels.

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No you did not get the point. I was telling that he could read all messages. Showing to public the private message was his personal decision. And I would have done it also. Nobody, really nobody has to accept to be called a cunt or that somebody says fuck you. That’s it.

And THAT is where you both go wrong.

And so messages here are not considered private at all - exactly what I said.

And by the way: stop saying as usual you miss the point. You miss the border where politeness ends up.

But you do. Not my fault when the truth stings.

But it is not related to Norman. it is related to all forum systems. Messages in Forum Softwares aren’t private at all. That I wanted to tell. Done. That Norman was posting that screenshot: I can understand. If you would not be there to push and press on him he wouldn’t cause he would not have to bring out an evidence. You made that necessary. That is your turn, your part. And that is what is far away from polite. But that’s something not interesting for you. Reaching your targets and that YOU be RIGHT. I am happy not to be like you. Really happy.

I think you’re arguing about different points:

Thorsten argues about the possibility that private messages of any forum of this type can be inspected by an admin.

Markus argues that an admin not only did inspect a private message but also violated its privacy by making that public to everyone.

Which means: It’s one thing to know that admins can check on private messages, it’s another thing whether an admin then posts the private content (which I find - without knowing the particulars - a bit more troubling, too).

Compare that with admins being required to check for abuse or illegal activity, especially if a judge might order the admin - which is a legal requirement (provided it’s possible). That kind of inspection of private messages might be considered adequate and okay (even Google and Apple do that). OTOH, an admin just being nosy and then making private data public might be a less acceptable case.

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(1) That has NOTHING to do with what I said is wrong. Therefore you completely missed the point.

(2) Do you seriously think I don’t know that admins can read the messages? They SHOULD NOT (in the same way that you should not read your wife’s diary or phone messages) but obviously the CAN.

REALLY? Norman had already stated that XojoPro was very rude to him - no further evidence necessary. What he DID was completely UNNECESSARY and NOT ON - and now you try to make Norman’s transgression MY fault? I MADE that necessary? Seriously???

NO THAT WAS A CONVERSATION BETWEEN NORMAN AND THE USER where this user said fuck you, cunt at the end to Norman. THAT he showed. And no: we are on the same line. I wanted to state that there is no real privacy and that I would have done in Normans Position the same: silenced that user. What he should have done before it came to that point. And Markus thinks that it wasn’t necessary to silence. So we are in his eyes the same as TOF. That was the fight in a short form. And the Discussion.

The message that Norman posted was SENT TO HIM… he did NOT repost a direct message sent to another user.

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I See that exactly so. You can see it different. But. That is with meanings the nice part: you can mean and think what you want Markus. I can mean and think what I want. And I think we should now end up that discussions. There is no real target for this discussion outside the point: that you are right at the end. So: You are right, sorry for all of that and end up with threatening on me.

yes it was the discussion between him and that user. And again: he had the right to do that.

If someone receives anything that was written in private to him, be it an email or private message, it’s not okay to quote that private text to others without the acknowledgement of the other party. It’s the same why you’re not allowed to record a private conversation without consent (esp. in Germany). Not sure if Norman did that, but if he did, I’d not be happy about that, too. Private conversation should remain private unless brought up in court where the law requires disclosure. Violating that privacy is not okay, even if it’s abusive.

As you see from the replies and “likes” it is exactly as I said: don’t have an expectation of privacy when it comes to sending personal messages.

I say what I think privately and publicly, so water of a ducks back for me - but in my opinion Norman and those defending him are VERY wrong. I frankly find their stance embarrassing and shameful, MUCH worse than XojoPro’s insult.

Like I said, telling to somebody he is a cunt and shall fuck up is something would lead me to ban this person and not only silence. That’s it.

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No, that’s not IT. It is the violation of the expectation of privacy of a personal communication::

I might not like XojoPro - but what you lot are doing is completely wrong.

I guess it is a case of “I might not agree with you [XojoPro] but I will defend your rights” for me.

Conversation is at Xojo developer gatherings - #32 by MarkusWinter