Replacement for Xojo as it relates to windows development

Just on the topic of the OP’s question - while i think Flutter/Dart has legs, another current ‘xojo-equivalent’ you could try is LiveCode.

I tried it a while back and found it OK but the IDE isn’t great for debugging; but on the other hand it did have some nice features like an data grid type control where you can define a row prototype with various other controls etc.

Language, IDE etc are based on the ancient HyperCard paradigm (System 6 era), with a HyperTalk english-like language which is weird coming from other environments, but not difficult to grasp…

Also said to offer Mac/Win/iOS and Android support, but don’t think it has Linux support (may be wrong…)

many years ago, I did buy a license for live code and gave it a go (this is before they split it out for a community edition and professional version). As someone who was never familiar with Hypercard, using Livecode felt a bit awkward and the language is a bit wordy. I will say it was interesting to be working on your code and then flip a switch and its running was neat; but where I found problems was if I wanted to work with test data I would have to be conscience to clear it all out before I compiled an exe other wise that data I was working with would go into the build.

another thing that I found scary about live code is if someone give you a project, you HAVE to be very careful it the project was set to open in the run state. Anything in the code base could wreak havoc on your system without realizing it.

Agreed, it’s very different and requires a lot of getting used to, but could be a viable alternative - for me the biggest issue was the debugger…
Ultimately i decided to stick with XOJO, as debugging was really just painful, but it’s another choice, and an easy choice for Android and possibly better for iOS.

Xojo really needs to address the issues that exist in 64 bit debugging since Catalina is 64 bit only

Same here. Procedural prolix language with more limits than Xojo.

FWIW folks need to just go watch

the end of this (about 45 minutes in) the demo is on macOS running Catalina !

they have ship dates & things that suggest they are not JUST dealing with mobile

2 years ago I was tempted again to migrate to .Net

At the same time I was having problems with an abussive company not respecting the contract. Quick google for .Net decompiler, download, run, get 100% of source code, import to VS, removed nagging code, recompiled. Run :shushing_face:

Happy with the modified version of the software, but after that, I dont want to spend lot of time writing the source code knowing anyone can get it 100%.

EDIT :I dont know enough about .Net and what all is coming to know IF this will still be a concern

That certainly has been a concern in the past

I’m not sure they can / could install .Net runtimes on iOS so it would seem they really do need to generate fully compiled exe’s
Cant imagine Apple would be happy having to put .Net exe’s in the store

I wonder if there’s a Xamarin app in the app store that could be downloaded and examined ?

Certainly warrants more investigation

EDITED for clarity

I recently bought an app called AppStat. Before the developer vanished he told me that the app was written in F#. In the bundle there is a folder called MonoBundle and the app is called “app.exe”. Unfortunately, the app doesn’t have a trial version.

.NET Core 3+ supports this, they say… They say that the .NET framework can be rolled into the .exe to allow you to have a single .exe application (or .app on MacOS)

My concern is STILL the lack of drag/drop GUI designer. I guess It must be the hardest thing in the world to convert graphics to code because almost nobody seems to be doing it. Maybe I’m the only one that doesn’t want to write code to create GUIs?
I hate the idea that I’ll have to start typing out my GUI in code. Isn’t that the point of computers to make things EASIER??

(Sorry for the rant)

Correction, I’m only seeing documentation for single executables on Win and Linux. Dunno about MacOS, but I’m not really sure what a “single executable” would even be on MacOS, as an .app always seems to contain many files…

Edit… or maybe you can?

Having the same same files just compressed in a single exe for convenience is not the same as compile them to native machine code.

To create forms the same way as it was 30 years ago, sure, it is easier drag and drop, .Net Actually has a GUI, XAML Designer and for .NET core, the WinForms Designer (not completed).

But, when you are creating Responsive Layouts for many screen sizes and multiple platforms (mobile/desktop) with the same source, most of the times it is easier to type the GUI

As for the topic, the .Net 5 has a LOT of promisses.

  • FREE
  • Unification of all .NET (relevant just on windows)
  • Multiplatform to be used on Windows, Linux and MAC
  • Desktop apps
  • Mobile Apps
  • Web Apps
  • Cloud Services
  • Games
  • IoT

Maybe I will reconsider with .NET 5, (to be released in November)

.Net 5 intro:

.Net 5 supported OS:

Download preview

An app under macOS is really a folder, although the Finder hides that from you, normally. You can right-click on an app and choose “Show Package Contents” to see what’s inside it, typically a Resources folder and an actual executable and perhaps some other bits. It’s a nice way to do it, which makes Xojo debugging under macOS rather easier than Win or Lin.

.Net MAUI (Multiplatform App User Interfaces) is .Net6. And is promised to the end of 2021. In 2020 we will have just a very limited preview.

.Net5 is web server only multiplatform, and Windows only Desktop. Mobile using Xamarin… Still a mess. In .Net6 they intend to fuse Xamarin forms in a new consistent version through all platforms, enabling multiplatform Desktop. It’s named MAUI.

With .Net and MAUI maybe MS is really serious about becoming THE tool vendor for everyone

It certainly is an interesting roadmap they have set

We will see a competition with Google. Google were evolving its tools towards this in a slow pace and MS seems pointing their guns to the same target year where Google intended to become the king. Not sure about the final outcome. The great thing is that both have resources to make a great fight and I like the idea of both fighting to show “the best product devs should love”.

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As Xojo user, I know what promised ares, so, no thank you. :wink:

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I wasn’t aware google had a multi-platform programming environment. Link?