But they are so shiny and fluffy you can’t resist them - 
DaveK’s comments are borderline trollish. I’d hope to see some constructive dialog at some point.
They seem to me to border on the line of the kinds of things that would get them banned on TOF
Discourse has excellent ignore features
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That direction should be designed to please/attract the customers that give them most of their income
Lately it looks like Xojo are only trying to hold their position until the current storm passes (this isn’t their first storm, they know the drill)
Those are both logical conclusions, and for Xojo’s sake they would continue to be viable strategies, but only for as long as the new prospective customers and casual users don’t realize that the entire foundation is being intentionally built on sand to give the appearance of being far more solid and mature than it actually is.
It’s like one of those high-rise apartment buildings in Asia that was intentionally constructed with crumbling concrete and sub-grade support members to build more units with less capital. It looks great, inside and out… Real Estate agents start selling the units like pancakes to new families and investors, and for a time everybody is very happy. But then some air conditioner installer kicks a load bearing column during their work and it pulverizes into a pile of sand. Now assuming that nobody bribes or silences this installer guy before the word gets out, people in the know begin to sell their units and flee as quickly as possible.
This exodus sets off red flags in any intelligent and critical consumer, but not in most so the fraud continues for a time. But once the word is out on the street and available to anybody who is in the industry, market, or prospecting for purchase, the cycle of fraud ends. The company, owners, employees (those who don’t protest and actively help to perpetrate it) and sub contractors all receive a black mark against their names.
That black mark may come in many forms, in some instances it is criminal prosecution and others it is simply the involuntary forfeiture of their market position and business income. In all cases, once exposed for all to see, they are done… because nobody like a fraudster, especially when the victims loose much more than just their money.
Now do I believe that this situation directly applies to Xojo, no. I actually believe that Xojo’s engineers are being crushed spiritually by being forced to consistently release less then their best work. I believe that they know the root cause of the problems far more intimately than any of us, and I also believe that they want to fix the long standing issues, that they work long and hard to deliver the very best result they can. I’m certain that hearing our never ending torrent of complaints, after working so hard to accomplish an impossible mission must be savagely soul crushing. For that, I truly and sincerely apologize.
Many of us understand that you do your very best under circumstances outside of your control, and being exceptional thinkers that you would have to be, you should know that all this rage is aimed high up the chain of command, because that is where the root cause of the problem is located.
Please understand, if a company releases a product with severe quality control issues, it can be interpreted in many possible ways that still retain innocence and honor of the responsible parties. For example, many would overlook failures in experimental technologies or even gross incompetence for a newer organization, rather than assign nefarious intent.
But once an organization has been put officially on notice that their not delivering as advertised, and that the leadership not only ignores, but actively interferes with and prohibits even discussion of corrective action, the situation changes from a mistake to intentional action. If this intentional action continues for years, it becomes a inexcusable and evidential.
Many here believe that leadership may actually want to do the right thing for their customers, partners and staff, but as the depth and scope of the cover-up and deceit continue to grow, that possibility becomes harder and harder to support with evidence. Eventually it becomes a clear cut and undeniable fraud.
The status quo has ended, there will be no going back to the cycle “once the mob is pacified”. The passage of time will no longer be an ally, rather it will only serve to galvanize the injured parties to escalate their effort to seek and obtain remedy. Please do the right thing for everybody. If you are on the inside, then you know your voice must be heard inside the halls of power and that there are many here who will gladly carry your flag. If any of you value Xojo Inc., the mission, the dream, the product, the customers, the revenue, the payroll, it’s reputation or even the consequences of your association with it should it come crashing down, I implore, no I beg you to join us and help get this going in the right direction.
We need your plan to improve the quality control issues once and for all, and bug fix releases need to begin rolling out to the customers. Nothing short of this will do.
“the things we could have done together” are still in my heart. I want nothing more then to see this become a case study of responsible corporate behavior and exceptional leadership taking a failed situation and making it into a showcase of excellence.
It’s your call, Captain.
Sometimes I check if some words / sentences /etc. are really what I think. This time it is “citizen dveloper”.
Read:
What I noted during these last months, some of these “citizen developers” have low computer usage knowledge (I do not know about their computer development knowledge), regarding their questions on TOF.
For this kind of people, Xojo docs are far from help…
Talking about the last (to date) Xojo Blog entry (by Xojo CEO), all I want to say is… that is a good piece of Marketing, but only some people will be happy with that.
To paraphrase a sentence I read often years ago in the TOF:
Changes will be here when the Changes will be released… 
Untin then, talking about what have to be changed is IMHO useless, unfortunately.
BTW: I never know why there was an IDE change (REALbasic 5.5.5 vs REALbasic 2005). It tooks me around one year to start using the - then - new one.
1998 → 2005 = 7 years
2005 → 2013 = 8 years
2013 → 2021 = 7 years
Will we see a new IDE next year ?
(some may think about a new product name change…)
I am curious to know what the Visual Studio MVP people will think about that !
The user experience on Windows with the old floating palette IDE was horrible so it moved to the new single window style we have had ever since
There were other changes as well like rewriting the IDE in RB so they did more dogfooding
Exactly, they try to lure this people, but then, they bump into a walls, CODE. Xojo answer for; basic controls (Date picker, time picker, etc), Decent reporting tools, data binding, etc, etc is, CODE IT YOURSELF.
So… F$%k pros and don’t be a real option for citizen dveloper either. Really “smart” move 
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BTW: I never know why there was an IDE change (REALbasic 5.5.5 vs REALbasic 2005). It tooks me around one year to start using the - then - new one.
1998 → 2005 = 7 years
2005 → 2013 = 8 years
2013 → 2021 = 7 yearsWill we see a new IDE next year ?
(some may think about a new product name change…)
That is some excellent info you dug there @Emile. Sure matches with history being the best predictor of the future.
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Your point being what exactly? That XOJO is a perfectly workable product but there are ‘whiny fools’ that post their dissatisfaction for the sake of it?
You do get that the people posting this stuff are actually proponents of XOJO, want to keep using XOJO and want XOJO to succeed… but it’s utterly infuriating the product just keeps getting worse, only because they are focusing on unicorns instead of their strengths?
With such a small team of developers, does it make any sense to try and provide half-assed iOS, Android and Web apps when the core strength at the desktop is being chronically neglected? With all the competing technologies available right now and more to come, what hope does XOJO have basing it’s survival on this?
The reason people are vocal about these issues is they want to affect direction of travel and help the product succeed. It’s not about being a ‘whiny fool’.
Fear not though, many of us ‘whiny fools’ have already left. Good to see you’re sticking with it tho…
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Maybe I simply observed the wrong sample of people (for example students) in my surroundings, but even the newbies want to use the same tools that the real pros use. So a good strategy could be: convince the pros first, the newbies will follow soon
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Most of really like Xojo, the language and tool. Myself I’ve been using it for over 20 years and have made my living off it that entire time. I helped found a professional users group many years ago to provide feedback to Xojo what those Pro users needed because we felt our needs weren’t being met. This was when there was nothing but desktop and web. Those fears have been amplified significantly over the course of the past number of years with iOS, Android, Web 2, API 2, and only enough done on desktop (where most of came from) to shut us up.
You can only take the daily beatings so long before you give up.
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This is your second warning. Please refer to our forum guidelines and refrain from hijacking threads, personal attacks and being aggressive and disrespectful to other members of the forum. Any further violations will result in a permanent suspension.
-TOF
Are you scared? 
Are you scared?
“I eat breakfast away from 1.3 Million DPRK soldiers who are trained to kill me, so don’t think for one moment that you can can come in here, flash some bans… and make me nervous.”
(exhales ring of Cuban cigar smoke)
Besides, all the action and people I would ask for help from are in here.
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“I eat breakfast away from 1.3 Million DPRK soldiers who are trained to kill me, so don’t think for one moment that you can can come in here, flash some bans… and make me nervous.”
I live approx 200 kms away from the PLA who claims to have more soldiers than there are people living on this wee island I call home (Taiwan). Eating breakfast too!
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Yeah that PLA thing sucks man. Personally, I am 100% on the umbrella side.
I think the CCP will be made to change its ways before Xojo will.
(btw It was a paraphrase from a move, I’m not actually under any threat) 
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It’s a bit awkward to find, but it appears to work.
They seem to me to border on the line of the kinds of things that would get them banned on TOF
Discourse has excellent ignore features
Yes I prefer ignore to censorship any day.
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I didn’t realize it was from a movie. lol… Glad to hear you’re not actually in danger, and if I’m being honest I don’t believe that we are really… Except for one small risk… If the current cold war turns live, even then I think we’ll simply wake up and find our leadership has changed overnight.
Its a great movie, a classic worth watching.
I would be shitting my pants living in Taiwan, go-bag in my car, sailboat at the pier style ready, but I must admit I am an alarmist. I personally think that the Spratly archipelago is where things will kick off first. Taiwan has a first class Air Force, and no matter what the CCP says, it is a sovereign nation so invasion will cost them dearly in both manpower and global reputation. Plus informal recognition of Taiwan seems to be the latest way to slap Xi in the face after covid19.