Norman has been banned … again …

we both know, that this is not about just using a compiler. It’s the whole toolchain. We are too long in the business not to see the strategy behind - embrace, extend, and extinguish. But I am afraid this would lead to a new topic. And Yes I am constantly moving away from closed source…

Remember the whole debacle when the new Xojo Forum came online and all the full names of the users where exposed, even if you didn’t login? The answer from Xojo was something like ‘We are an American company and don’t care about your European GDPR’. So Xojo and privacy, not 100% sure either.

today marked a purposeful change in my favourites in Safari.
since I was banned from the Xojo forum I have never been back on it to look at anything, even though the ban has expired.

looking at the names on this forum, and the ability to discuss openly all aspects of programming freely it felt like the best time to formally start to leave xojo behind for me so I deleted the xojo forum link today and will no longer subject myself to such small minded censure.
It is goodbye xojo, I hope you do some real updates before my Pro licence runs out in December, but I doubt it.

Maybe I should copy this to the ‘letter to…’ thread.


The entire toolchain for Flutter is completely open source, so the answer to “who knows what they would send to their servers” is everyone. Everyone knows. Your paranoia is completely unfounded.

You should, I cant understand how the CEO can live in that dream where everybody is happy and loving the direction xojo is taking

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The same way President Trump can.


Back when I was a new user of Realbasic I received a personal email from GP to ask me how I was getting on. I replied with some complimentary remarks about the product. I then received a further email asking me for more information to which I also replied.
Shortly afterwards, there was a quote from me, using my real name on the Rb site. There had never been a suggestion that this might occur and it’s never sat right with me. In fact it’s colored my view of the man to this day.

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When Xojo was still REALstudio I used some promotions to upgrade my license for 5 years (a lot of money for me, and a real vote of confidence). Then they renamed themselves to Xojo and restructured their licenses again with a new Pro including Web and/or iOS. When a promotion came around again I wanted to upgrade to that new Pro but was told I can’t because I had a REALstudio license, not a Xojo license. After pressing Geoff on the issue he finally told me that I couldn’t upgrade because I hadn’t paid enough for my license!

You can imagine what I think of him since then …


Wow. Just wow!

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I recall that and just bit my tongue
Didnt think that was the right thing to do


Yeah, after that I did not buy a license anymore but stayed on 2012 R1.2 for a looong time.

But in late 2016 a German computer magazine (c’t) had a cover CD bundle including Little Snitch, GraphicConverter, PhotoMagico, and a few others … for €8.99 when bought online. The license codes had to be used by 1. Nov. 2017. I bought about 20 and sold the license codes individually (Little Snitch sold like hotcakes!). Nobody was interested in the Xojo ones, so I installed some on the computers I had access to (eg my father’s computer, my wife’s), gave a few away, and registered the rest to myself on the last day possible.

Then Xojo had a 20% off promo for upgrades to Pro which I took, thinking one of the licenses remaining value and 20% off would be a good deal … and had a pleasant surprise when ALL my standard licenses were rolled into the Pro license with their remaining value. I always hated them destroying my old expired licenses (could have given them away) but in this case I only had to pay about $80 for the Pro upgrade … which is how I got to 2018 R3. I wish I could say I was clever, but it was truly accidental. :blush:

But considering that Xojo screwed me over with refusing to let me upgrade my REALbasic license because I “didn’t pay enough” it was very satisfying to see that Karma is indeed a … :smiling_imp:

Interestingly Xojo seems to have stopped promotions around that time - which meant they shot themselves in the foot as evidenced by the number of new forum users/day over time:

Xojo New Forum Users per day

P.S. The big spike was due to the email list being shut down …


“Desktop is the only shipping product right now. iOS is abandonware, Web 1 is dead. Web 2 is still in beta. Android is vaporware.”

Priceless quote

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Markus your chart is misleading. Firstly you have just a couple of days out of 365 days per year. What if a day before one of your point ten joined the forum? You are not charting the sum, just the Plus per Day and I do not want to blame the X-Axis which is not scaled properly.

Secondly what does this metric really say? Maybe the Documentation became better so less people are asking for help in forums? Maybe more Pro and Plus Devs asked Xojo staff directly? Who knows?

Your chart is - sorry - crap. I thought you’re scientist, so why you are posting such misleading charts?

Sorry, but this is utterly nonsense. It is obvious that the points you see are most likely only a few out of the whole set (EDIT: not every day was sampled if I understand @MarkusWinter’s further remark). Not all points and dates will be shown because there just isn’t enough space to show them all. But the trend will stay correct.

And what about the X-axis (which is the horizontal one)? He can hardly show every point in 365 days * 7 years, can’t he?

Or did you mean the Y-axis (vertical one)? Then scaling is perfectly fine: what do you want 0 - 10.000? Of course it will be a flat line but how can you see a trend then? You take the min and max of Y and that is your scale.

And in science, 'maybe’s have no value. One can USE the chart to try to find out why there is a sudden spike or drop. But the ones you mention are VERY unlikely to be the cause…

Sigh. Thomas, if you don’t know what you are talking about then it is better to ask before talking :poop: .

First of all the x-axis is fine. It is scaled properly, just try counting. There are 14 Months and 2 weeks between each evenly spaced marker.

Secondly it is NOT just a few days but the number of users per day that have joint since the last data point. And it clearly states “as evidenced by the number of new forum users/day over time“ - and NOT “the number of new forum users/day”.

Thirdly - don’t tussle with a Scientist. You’ll loose every time. :wink:

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P.S. The numbers were derived from when I had recorded them - which happened at irregular intervals - and augmented by what I could find via the Wayback Machine (the Internet Archive).

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The name of this thread sounds like the name of an indie cult movie starring the brat pack

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“Weekend at Normie’s” followed immediately by “The Hangover” ?

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Actually the only blunder is the brain study.

The rest are (successful for a time) frauds (so you could argue the Scientist “won” until other Scientists had a close look) or not Scientists.

The last one (flat earth societies) is about as far away from Science as you can get.

And the discovery of Penicillin was not fortuitous - that is a misrepresentation.