Not having access to products/services one has paid for is indeed a matter of concern.
It is especially when you are by self selling on the American market. So I know definitely that the contract is to fulfill and that’s it. And the contract says that there is the access to Beta tests. The condition “if you have access” is not working while they by self are taking care that there is no access to. And that is all of the story. Yes, possibly it would be worth of making a trial. Somebody from US could do it much more efficient then I could do while I am from Europe.
IF it affected me more than it does I might send the TX AG a letter
Or a lawyer based there
Or both
Xojo is the one that offered the “contract” and still do
and they knowingly and willfully break that when they ban anyone IF they hold those licenses types
That they’ve been informed of this is just the first step I suppose
Between the EULA, the forum guidelines and this comparison chart I cant find anything that says anything about “you get banned we remove your ability to be part of the beta test group”
Not sure it exists anywhere
It just happens
“Forum access, including access to pre-releases, is not guaranteed, regardless of license type.”
the access to pre releases is Julian.
I just quoted from their website 
Please give a link to the source, can‘t find it.
Thanks. These are the forum guidelines. In @npalardy‘s post above is a link to what is advertised as the product. This product advertisement clearly says ‘Pre-Release Access’ for Pro and Pro Plus. When a license is sold based on this advertisement, it becomes contractual. I am not a lawyer, but I do not see how part of this contract can be voided by forum guidelines.
Yup, and I’m just pointing out what it says on their site as Norman couldn’t find it.
As far as I understand it, pre-release access is directly linked to forum access, you can’t get access to it without being on the forum. You cannot join the forum without a xojo account, you enable forum access via your xojo account when you sign up. If you don’t like this you have 90 days to cancel your contract with xojo and get a full refund. Therefore, if you lose access to the forum you can no longer access part of your purchase and at the end of the day that is totally dependent on how you act and behave. Everyone banned had ample chances and notice before they were banned, maybe they should have realised this before getting banned? On a side note, I have no idea if they do actually have pre-release access still in that they can run the pre-release binaries if they can get it from somewhere else. If they do then this is even more of a pointless discussion as access to it hasn’t technically been removed, only that they can’t access the download directly.
Part of the agreement of being on the prerelease channel (And beta mailing list back in the day) has always been to not share info from there (never mind pre-release versions!) with those who are not on the channel…
In theory those supplying them with pre release copies, by the rules, should be removed from the pre-release program themselves…
- Karen
… in which case the sales contract necessitates access being given to the forum, and denial of access is again a breach of the sales contract. Alternatively they could give direct access from the user’s account.
I find it interesting that you didn’t spot that. Apologist much? Vying for a position with Xojo? MVP aspirations? Don’t worry - you’ll get my vote. You’ll fit right in, and your programming skills are probably better than most of those who work there, so at least that’s an improvement …
ah
it is there
would be nice if the was a dated modified on that
then they really shouldnt imply on the features pages that it IS a benefit since it can be removed at their discretion
I wonder if archive.org has old images of that page JUST for curiosity sake
ah yeah they do and they changed somewhere in 2021 between Jul 12 and 27 they switched to include that
basically AFTER I’d obtained licenses under different terms 
cute
Not as far as the BUY pages advertise - theres no disclaimer there about this
(although I’d hazard a guess that after this discussion there will be)
The wayback machine should be interesting to see when that occurs
And they altered the terms AFTER I agreed to the purchase based on them advertising I get access to pre-release versions
I have all the necessary things - EXCEPT xojo revoked, unilaterally, one of the things agreed to when my license was purchased
Now that client has NOT chosen to renew THAT license
But a different one has
Again this is all moot
I dont expect Xojo to allow me in unless they are sued over it
Which I highly doubt anyone would care that much to do it
NOPE
literally out of the blue
they added a new rule for being a “negative voice in the community” and banned me based on that
I even wrote a blog post about me asking why I’d been banned since it was so unexpected
and I patiently waited 10 days before I wrote that post and even emailed Geoff asking why staff hadn’t replied to my query about why I’d been banned
A few posts earlier in this thread, I wrote
I like this forum, too. We can discuss contentious topics without getting personal.
Am I right or wrong?
Who cares?
And you just lost your moral „high ground“ with that attempt at influencing what others are allowed to say …
Lovely
?? you have bad points in TOF ? removed likes ???
ok !
don’t get me wrong emile, i have nothing about your digression, i like it
but sometimes it’s hard to follow you, for example you are really the benjamin of 7 and notifications from forum reminded you of that ?
and please don’t stop digressing, it’s cool
Ah yes I had to dig deeper to see that you couldn’t share downloads and its not just limited to no discussion, as Norman still has access I was wondering how he can do it without falling foul of that, interesting.
Just because a portion of the sales contract says you can get access to something doesn’t mean that the access cannot also be removed. While the comparison chart does mention pre-release access, the image doesn’t mention that forum access is used to get access to the pre-release. You find this out later which is why you have a 90 days cooling off period. I doubt there’s anyone involved in a banning that has passed the 90 days cooling off period without having access to the forum and thus knowing that access to pre-release can only be gained via the forum. No-one would fall into that set because to get banned from the forum you would need forum access. Therefore, as far as I can see, everyone else has zero legal grounds for following this up, but as I’m no lawyer I’d love to hear how someone gets on with a challenge to this, but I doubt that will happen or that they will publish their account of it.
Do people really lawyer up instead of/before asking for a $600-$700 refund?
They could, but they choose not to, probably because of the small percentage of users impacted and the work involved in doing that, they would also need to start including lots of other information, pdf’s etc, essentially building part of the testers channel into the account settings portion of the site, so no, I doubt that will ever happen. Norman’s request for a mute rather than a ban would solve this, but mutes aren’t mentioned on their rules as a result of a transgression so there’s no recourse on that angle, if they don’t want to offer it.
I did, see above. I believe the US has a mandatory 72 hour cooling off period after distance sales which give you time to read the small print etc and request a refund. This means companies can simplify the transaction and send you additional information after the sale. Much like in the UK where companies send through huge legal documents after you purchase something, like insurance, as they couldn’t give you all that information before hand as some of it can change based on your choises. As Xojo goes beyond this to 90 days I can’t see how any would have a leg to stand on in this regard.
It’s interesting that you quote a portion of my response then once again start talking about something that I have already answered in the past, let me find it and quote it for you, one of these days it might sink in.
I neither want nor require your vote nor your admiration in my abilities especially while you insult staff at xojo. I’m a self confessed muppet, all advice I give are lucky guesses.
Did you ask for a refund and were refused?
It doesn’t matter, a reasonable person would be able to work out that having access to something via a system that you can be banned from means that access to that something can at some point stop. Even if its not spelled out, it would be one of the questions asked if someone lawyered up on this. Access to the forum is not part of the sale either so losing access to that wouldn’t be considered.
What? You didn’t receive multiple notices and a time out from the forum before you were banned? My memory might be fading but I’m sure I recall you talking about those at the time.
Obviously not you. Ahhh the old I get to say anything response, I’ve spoken to you about this before, unfortunately you don’t get to say whatever you want due to the to the rules here. Keep ad-hom’ing me, personally I don’t mind, but others might.
I recall him saying they gave him no specifics and thinks involved what he said in other places besides the forum.
In any case IMO the discussions on the forum these days are less in depth, lower in quality, less interesting and lower in volume that they were for many years in the past on the forums and before that the mailing lists.
- karen