The second one was the feature that the SAS engineers said could not be done… This paper was referenced in the next series of User Manuals for the SAS/AF product, and later SAS actually added this as as internal feature (and no I got no compensation for it 
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If the “programming language" is able to generate a stand alone application, I will say IT IS A PROGRAMMING LANGUAGE.
Otherwise, this is something different. (What ?)
If you base your argument on the belief the LiveCode is a thriving business your entire argument is moot.
Now it just gets confusing when you can run C, etc in interpreted environments 
That’s not really “cross platform” as all (except Android) run on (roughly) the same OS.
IMHO Xojo is really good in generating cross platform code. I have several projects in Xojo that run on Mac and Windows without changing code. Those projects DO have some conditional “TargetOS” detection, but only in a few instances and it does result in code that doesn’t need any change to compile to Windows and Mac OSX.
I did mention that the term cross-platform has become a little confusing because of situations like this (single project, multiple device type).
Good for you. Personally, I spent a lot of extra time just trying to make Xojo made Mac apps look and work like Mac apps.
I think the term got muddied a bit when portable devices and Web entered the game. Originally “cross platform” was meant for Windows, Mac and Linux: machines with the same purpose, but different operating systems. In that case my experience is that I can compile across different platforms without much different code. As these newer media came into play for Xojo, the platforms were becoming much more different: much smaller screen size, touch screens, lack of keyboard, etc. I doubt that one codebase can compile to all that without massive changes.
CodenameOne can compile for Desktop and mobile without any change. Lost your bet.
So how do you rearrange your interface stuff? I wonder how an app running on a 27" screen looks on an iPhone? And what about that crazy pricing? Price per month??
Desktop is the only place that Xojo manages this even close
Add Linux in as a distribution target and you’ll see the differences you have to start accounting for
Controls sizes as quite different so you’ll need a lot of code to adjust those on Linux (and probably should have some for Windows as well)
Mobile ? you need 2 separate & very different projects - no real cross platform here at all
And the only code you can bring over from your desktop will be non-ui code - and maybe it will work since there are severe restrictions that vary between iOS & Android
And now web ?
definitely no ui is portable
What you are speaking about? Codenameone is free and open source. Using their build servers is costing money. And exactly that’s the point why I never do that. I am writing mobile with cn1, desktop with javafx or swing and web with vaadin or just. And that is all for free. Even the ide is for free (intellij or eclipse or NETBEANS). So all platforms for zero bucks
I have to correct me. Using their Build Server until a jar Size of 8.5 MB if also for free. And that`s a lot.
One way is to use Declarative UI, describe the interface and layout, and let the compiler handle the platform specifics (style, spacing etc).
Views like a NavigationSplitView give you a 2 or 3 partitioned window on the Mac and tablet, while using a swipable UI on mobile.
There’s other kinds of layout controls that would be really useful in Xojo, but require you to create.
You can mostly have only one: Drag and Drop UI Designer or declarative UI. It is kind of impossible to reach the flexibility of a declarative UI and the simplicity of Drag and Drop UI Designer like Xojo has.
It is a bit like it was in old times. 80 characters a row and 24 lines. Never different and you can design with this. No need for anything.
Today it works a bit different and so it would be cool to have for example at least Layout Managers.
OMG, designing a UI took hours in those days. Working in Foxbase and Clipper and all that old stuff, I can’t say I miss it. I had a project created in Clipper and QuickBasic that I maintained somewhere until 2010 and it was a nightmare every time I had to go back to work on that. Creating software with these modern object oriented software is way easier and faster.
I had an rep system written in c. I was happy to migrate it to java swing in 2003. Exists still
I’ve seen drag and drop designers for declarative. My assumption had been that there isn’t a desire to build them from the company end.
It doesn’t seem impossible to implement, unless the goal was to completely implement. And overall, I haven’t understood the current landscape beyond “this is what i need to do now I guess.”
It seems like a huge step backwards, especially when HTML/CSS has all sorts of accessibility built in, the UI can be ‘described’ and the client side can handle the platform specifics, and there’s no shortage of development tools for it. I understand why it doesn’t work for some things, or makes some things more difficult. But for the longest time it’s seemed like the perfect base to build on, and nothing happens beyond half-hearted support or roadblocks (particularly on Apple’s end).
I’ve seen also a few but the results…far away from what I expected.
Yep, the output of the flutter one is trash, and expensive. I think it’s just designed for exploitation.
But something in the style of Bootstrap Studio, would be fantastic (Or even better, in the style of Visual Studio’s UI tools).
There used to even be a Microsoft tool where you could draw the UI and the markup would be generated for you. Obviously not a final product, but a great start, especially when meeting over designs and such. I used it a lot.
Lately it’s felt like the reason we don’t have better tools is mostly because of layoffs and boofing Generative AI/LLM.
which flutter one? i’m messing with a couple of them.
i gotta say, though, i haven’t really need them. using github copilot, i’ve been able to build decent ui’s in the first couple of apps i tried to prototype out. i’m wondering if i can just copilot+hot reload my way through the widget tree and skip the rad tool.
Having had copilot replace my code with it’s own for presumably giggles, what I have just read is truly terrifying.