If they are including CSS in their idea of HTML, and everyone here believes turing completeness defines if something is a programming language, then…
CSS + JS definitely is (mostly because JS itself is)
That seems to be what the GitHub link leads to
CSS on its own I dont believe is
I could be wrong
HTML by itself definitely is not
FWIW the IEEE article does NOT define what they mean by “programming language” but DOES say they are going based on popularity & frequent requests by employers
So yes HTML/CSS gets mentioned & requested a lot of prospective hires or people doing work
But its not a “programming language” in the same sense as C, C++, Rust etc
CSS has computation, variables, and logic, doesn’t it?
It’s different in syntax and how it describes actions should be taken, but it at least fills the stereotypical needs of a programming language pretty directly.
Edit: accidental deletion, oops.
Hence why I said
CSS on its own I dont believe is
I could be wrong
I’m not sure its Turing complete even with those things
Is turing completeness defining a programming language then?
I didn’t think all languages are.
And I don’t think anyone would say HTML is in the same category as C, but under an umbrella of programming languages, it’d still fit under declarative.
There’s a claim that all “programming languages” are Turing complete on the wikipedia page
But no citation
So yeah C, C++, Rust, Swift JS, Java and many others are
HTML cannot do conditional logic so no
Not sure if CSS can (anyone ?)
SQL has even been shown to be Turing complete
But a calculator isnt since it cannot perform conditional branching (thats mentioned on the wikipedia article)
At best a markup / display language
Like an RTF or Markdown
But theres definitely no programmability or computational logic in it
Thats where TIOBE for instance says no to it being in their lists despite being popular & requested a lot by employers
They only consider Turing complete languages
HTML isnt on their list
You can make a CYOA game in HTML, and you can’t in Markdown/RTF. Maybe that should be the criteria.
Regardless: CSS does have conditional logic: media queries, etc, are basically, If screen is size, if media is paper, colorscheme chosen, etc. Styles are applied based on the outcome, so that should be considered branching. (not presenting a stylesheet based on useragent, but having one stylesheet that adjusts appearance based on conditions you set).
Anyway, doing some searching with what’s left of Google, and discovering that:
- Postscript is considered a programming language
- Prolog is considered a programming language
- HTML after HTML5 and the current standard are considered to include some JS? I think in the sense that XAML and C# are part of writing a WPF application.
Perhaps now it is I that is pedantic.
To answer the original question, the graphic can be more accurately described as a measurement of the number of times a word is attached the the word developer or programming.
We searched for articles that mention each of the languages in the template “X programming” for the years 2023 and 2024, because this is the smallest timeframe for which we could access articles.
…
We measured the demand for different programming languages on the CareerBuilder job site. We searched for “Developer” jobs offered within the United States, as this is the most popular job title for programmers.
Source: https://spectrum.ieee.org/top-programming-languages-methodology-2024
Looking for “JOBS” it get’s to the point: SQL (needed with nearly all languages), Python (also nearly coming as script language with all languages together so Python pros are really needed. And then: Java. Was to expect. Clean up the script users which are in the need of Python scripts as helper scripts (that’s the biggest amount of them) you can replace Python without any problem. SQL: as I said, comes together as a must have with Java, C++, C# and many others cause it is the DB-Language #1. Followed by TypeScript. And then: SAS. Putting a statistic language in front of JavaScript? Or is Software as a Service meant? While if: that is no programming language. It is a paradigm. But not a language. And the SAS language by Altair isn’t as often in use to be even on a list like this.
I would consider not to fight as much about HTML but about this one which is even on the 5th place in this list.
Or, in other words: leave it like it is. This list is worth: not the time to read it in my eyes.
I honestly can’t think of any reason why SAS can’t be considered a programming language, the same way I can’t think of any reason PostScript wouldn’t be considered a programming language. SQL is a programming language too. It can do an impressive array of tasks on it’s data, to the point where a huge amount of logic from your project can be run on the server through stored procedures, views, etc.
The only oddball here was HTML, and I think that’s because it’s mostly associated with documents and it’s own past.
There was a methodology, and numbers behind that. I don’t find any of this strange.
After crawling there is a set of three Jobs for SAS. So how can it be in this list on this position? Obviously a joke? Sorry. I consider not to see this list as reality based. Sorry for that but: it is not true. And that’s it. Finding the most popular programming languages is not working like this. A Chrystal ball will give more exact and real results. The methodology is bad and will not give any real result.
crawling what?
The Department of Defense has 4 SAS jobs available on it’s own.
A quick indeed search returns “100+”
They gave their criteria. I hardly think they are being manipulative about it.
SwiftUI, Flutter and other declarative development tools.
With SwiftUI I can build a Mac app, that looks, smells and works like a Mac app and then a couple of clicks and it works on iPad, Android, iPhone, Watch, TV and Vision Pro. I can modify UI elements per target.
I wrote a write-up on declarative UI, which includes listing the tools that can do multi-product and cross platform.
https://ohanaware.com/blog/2023/10/Declarative-UI-is-the-future..html
Because it is confusing, some tools will cater to multiple devices, but only brand specific, some cater to limited devices but across brands.
hmm… I need to update my list to include this.
Me neither, I actually found the language to be quite confusing, even if I spent several years working with HC. My first Mac app was a HyperCard application.
wild. i found it to be the most natural, intuitive language i’ve used. that’s probably why lc is my go-to…but that is probably about to change.
especially if you select the wrong category, and then…surprise, you didn’t get what you thought you were getting when you spent a hundred hours learning it.
it’s kind-of like what happened to me, when i first decided i wanted to mess with making better web pages. i mistakenly grabbed a java book, instead of a javascript book, and a zillion hours later, realized that there was a very distinct difference, and i was on the wrong one.
At one time SAS was a leading programming language in Aerospace/Defense as well as Healthcare. I know, I was the head SAS programmer for General Dynamics for over 10 years and a Project Lead at a major Healtcare company until they decided to transition to Oracle products.
I even have a couple of published white papers on various aspects of the language, including one the documented a major function, that even the SAS engineers said couldn’t be done, but I did it, and published a paper proving it
You can’t tease us with this and not share the paper, that’s unfair!
Databases and websites.
I have knowledge from source of a big insuring company in Germany that many Job Searches are Bogus. They do not really look for People in this positions and using their searches for other purposes. And I believe, others do this aswell. Therefore to take this as sole information for any kind of ranking seems not representative to me.