Is Web 2.0 dead?

What happens to Web 2.0 now that Greg is leaving? Web 2.0 already has many, many issues. :cry:

Xojo Inc. has more staff and currently tries to hire a new developer for web support.

11 posts were split to a new topic: Moaning about people complaining about Xojo

Thats a million dollar question as it will take anyone time to get up to speed

I expect to see a flurry of stuff in other areas to make it less obvious Web isnt or hasnt got someone working on it

Xojo has said it take new hires about 6 months to get up to speed. So who is going to fix bugs in Web until then? 9 months is a long time to wait for bug fixes. That’s assuming someone is hired SOON.

No-one has said how long he’ll remain there doing handover and if he’ll be helping out a little once he’s gone, there’s plenty of things to consider, none of which we’ll ever be told so its all guesswork.

It’ll be interesting to see if the new incoming will make any big changes to web 2.0 or they will just band-aid what is there. I hope whoever comes in is given the freedom to do what they want and not what Geoff thinks needs to be done.

“Forsake all hope, ye who enter here” … comes to mind …

What is not needed is for everyone to go off in their own direction. Over the years, that seems to have happened with some frequency with “cool” features being added only to disappear sometime later.

Theres an awful lot of 6 months passed since I first heard the 6 months comment. It’s not something I really bought into - it felt like it was being used as a reason not to hire.

FWIW - I so want Xojo to succeed, and I sincerely hope they do - big time.

It is not said since six month. This argument is used while Xojo’s Web-Framework-Developer was leaving the company. They search a new one. Needs to be a good Engineer with deep knowledge of JavaScript and Object oriented programming (while he then can fast get into Xojo). Needs six month to teach somebody for this Job (if it is a real good engineer). That is the Six month no big Update Argument used in this Thread. I can not put your sentence of saying this for six month mount together with the situation we are speaking about.

And yes: it would be really good if Xojo would survive and get ready with the situation at this time. They can do that, I am trusting in it that it is possible. But at this time they have a deep problem with a lost Web engineer which can not show the successor how to work with the framework while he is gone. Bad timing.

Over the years (countless 6 month periods), at every conference I’ve been to, and to a lesser extent on the forums, the subject of engineer numbers comes up. Every time I can recall the 6 month argument comes up from Xojo Inc…

“It takes 6 months to train an engineer so you’re not going to get the fast results you are hoping for.”

And my view is that this argument was being used publicly to not hire. You may disagree but thats my view.

I’ve, personally, never bought into that - you either need people or you don’t - I’ve always felt they do. My perception now is that Xojo have lost a engineer and no-one to step in and this argument has but them

That’s forbidding to think about. And that’s blind. While I know that I can’t await fixes in big amounts for the Web framework for the next decade of months at least. That makes me realizing that - to use Xojo Web - I need to build up stuffs by self while no chance to do with Xojo. Stuffs which worked with Web 1.0 but which are not realized in Web 2.0. And yes, that saved time in development but not in usability.

I am not here to discuss what you mean. But I want to say out what I mean and to be able to discuss the facts.

Indeed it is no problem. At least not for me. If I can’t realize with Xojo I CAN do it with Kotlin of with Java and Vaadin. So what. If Xojo wants to stay between all professional frameworks it would be best if Xojo would start to develop further.

The Idea behind the new frameworks isn’t bad at all. Same code for same Stuffs. That is something I know from Java. At least there I can use Jpro and Gluon for Web and Mobile together with JavaFX. That works and makes no problem at all.

So if you think that is told because we are enemies of Xojo: you are wrong. We want Xojo to grow and to have Success. To fix the Bugs and to build reliable and highly usable frameworks and - last but not least - to generate big amounts of sales.

What you try to say is that it is not costing half of a year. What I know from history is: it will cost much much much more.

Well, I can give my own experience with my ‘new’ company (going on 2 years next month). Even with 20 years of Xojo experience I didn’t feel like I knew enough about our product (very big project) to be implementing major features. Don’t get me wrong, I was contributing to a lot of bug fixes and minor features, but certainly not big new features. At a year I knew enough to start asking for things to be done. And at two years I feel like I have some useful knowledge about large portions of the project.

My point is that the larger the project (and Xojo itself is very large) it does take time to be useful and contribute major new functionality. You really need a senior developer doing code reviews and pointing out things to be aware of. Xojo doesn’t really have the staffing capabilities to do this well.

I’m not sure I’d say the 6 month mark is used as an excuse but it points out that it takes time for even an experienced developer to get up to speed. So a new developer does not automatically mean an output increase right away.


While in a different field, my experience is when a new person joins an organization, initially overall productivity can drop a bit, because the new person needs time from existing personnel to help them get up to speed.


My concern is the Mac, AFAIK Greg was responsible for that platform too and there’s many places where it seriously needs some TLC and doesn’t meet Apple’s various guidelines (including some code signing issues).

Like @thommcgrath I would like to get in there and fix as many problems as I can, but I’m on t’otherside the world and I’ve been self employed for so long, I honestly don’t know how I could transit into employment, and that’s even if Xojo would want me on their team.

The most complex part is: the old Web-Library-Programmer is gone. He was the inventor of Web 2.0 and the main developer of it. He was the one which specialized himself for doing exactly that. So a next one has to get in without the expertise of the main programmer which was doing the project. There are others which can explain to him the Xojo based parts. But not the rest. Especially the Web Framework with it’s Session handling, App-handling and so on is really a hard and dry piece of Bread. It will ned an amount of time to chew.

And so I am sure that the first half of the year if not even the entire first year there will be not that much output. I said half of a year while I believe that then begins the Bug fixing phase. Real new Features and Big Updates will come out after two years. That’s Software Life.

I have also a good example. My Firmware Guy thought, when he was beginning, that so small programs with less then 700 kb Sourcecode can not be that complex. Until the moment that he also need before any change to get by self what that change will do physically with the device. It needed two years until productivity. And that’s quite normal.