There is the model “Pay as you GO”, and my model is “Pay as THEM GO”. Never “Auto”. I even regret having paid to get 2019r1.1 expecting that the following releases were stable. I hope 2020r1 having a better Windows desktop support now. I renewed because the discounted price. Hope not regretting again. Never used what I paid for.
Curious why you expect this since 2020r1 is focused almost entirely on Web 2.0 ?
I know I’ve told my clients not to and we’ll just but the releases when/if we need them.
Had Xojo stuck to a one per quarter release schedule that advice might have been different.
But one is still using 2019r1.1 and will be for some time; another has moved up to 2019r3.1 and will likely be there for some time (probably a year or more); another is still using versions from as far back as 2016 right up to 2019r3.1
You do what suits what you need
Because I know that some expected bugs where fixed since 2019r3.1
Oh here I though you meant something more than bugs fixed
And THAT is what has disillusioned me…
I started using RB 19 years ago (first purchase was April 2001) and my use case has ALWAYS primarily been X-Platform desktop with and without database for use on my jobs… most of the time by people besides myself - either direct reports or people in other departments interacting with my department.
I think that is the primary use case (desktop/DB) for most of those that Xojo calls citizen developers, who are supposed to be one of their main target audiences…
At first when I started with it, RB seemed pretty rough around the edges in places for that X-platform use case (anybody remember the terrible home grown DB they used before switching to SQLite?), but were making constant improvements in X-Platform desktop … but then that essentially stopped…
I can understand why they would go for the web and mobile market… Even I would have found web useful for in-house web apps (actually did one for a very short time) if it had matured… But not at the expense of X-Platform desktop…
Web for web apps was not THAT bad for it’s time for that purpose, but should have been better and iOS has never been anything but a toy… It would have been one thing if they had done web and iOS well and had NOT gone with with the Xojo.Framework for iOS making code incompatible with desktop… But that was not the case…
Then while STILL ignoring desktop they spend a ton of time on API 2 (even after the Xojo.Framework debacle) which did not give us much of any capabilities we did not already have… AND essentially obsoleting all all those years of desktop code (Just wait until the new controls come out with the new events!)…
So I ask myself how much have they done over the last 7-8 years that has been useful for MY use case, that made my coding easier (shall we talk about the Xojo IDE?) or gave me the ability to do things easily I could not before? Very very little in the answer… and they don’t seem as concerned to abstract platform differences so we don’t have to worry about them and have to learn a lot of platform specific archania (one of the big reasons I was attracted to RB in the first place!)
I was once very enthusiastic about the product… these day i use it mostly out of inertia… I wonder how many others feel that way.
-Karen
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Go check the Roadmap now
They’ve added to it
Go figure 
Thanks Julia for a very good point.
I think my negative thoughts come from updating at 19r1 (from 16r3) and thinking YAY! I am going to get a good year of bug fixes to the compiler and at last get some stability.
a couple of weeks later 19r2 was released, massive feck up, then months of doing diddly squat, then introducing web 2, and guess what my licence is going to expire and I have funded a shambles of an update with money that is totally wasted as I have zero updates, just pointless ‘testers’ code.
I am simply not a believer in API2, I don’t want to be a perpetual beta tester for the company, I just want to write code and make enough to pay for the licence now and again.
I just do not believe in the roadmap any more, sadly.
the hoo-har about event name changes and all the histrionics surrounding it appear to have had some impact, yup they dumped 19r2, but all the changes they want to do are going to happen in the future, just with stealth, and that is no issue, its their ball, but a ball needs a team to play with it and I (I suspect among many) am not wanting to buy a ticket to watch the game any more.
ok, while they do that what happens to all the other stuff going on, I want to be convinced its that simple, we still have no 64bit Pi, and thats a choice not to do it (so I believe).
You as a very integral component in the Xojosphere obviously have your own data point to qualify what you say about the ‘majority’ of Xojo users, but the normal ‘citizen’ (I don’t like that term, but its understood widely) and many PRO coders do not just do database, especially in the Pi area, which could be massively expanded.
If as you say the changes are solely to support database users then really!, how could any of the recent ‘updates’ do any of that, how has android helped anyone, how has abandoning iOS helped anyone, how has changing all the event names helped anyone to make a better database program.
MBS is a shining light in this product, and Christian you are significantly responsible for keeping the Xojo afloat I would suspect.
MBS is a fabulous way to extend the generic compiler into one that is much more of a contender.
sadly almost everything MBS does would normally be expected to be included in the IDE by default from the view of a new user, which I say as my own, not so, humble opinion.
Walter you have hit a nail on the head that I was alluding to, badly it seems.
android can be done a million times over for free superbly, in basic if you like, who in their right mind is going to pay extra money to do it in Xojo, if its implementation is anywhere near as bad as iOS then its a dead duck to start with.
all that energy, all that money and time colossally wasted by jumping on a waggon 5 years too late is mind blowing.
I want to have something good to say about the Xojo direction right now and I want to give them a lot of money to keep doing good things, but its not seemingly happening from my perspective just now.
There are a number of users that I know would pay them a LOT more money to do the x-platform desktop EXCELLENTLY across the targets the support
It’s a niche that is stunningly underserved in the tools market - at least right now (we’ll see if any of the ones supposedly ‘coming soon’ actually do)
If you had 1000 users who paid a 2000 annual license you have 2 million in revenue
I suspect that actually would be a good #
They have 11 staff - pay em each 100K and 2 million in revenue has money left over
Wow Karen, there are a lot of messages in your post that I subscribe to completely, and that is why I started this thread, I thought I might get shouted down for being so negative, but there are seemingly many people who love Xojo, want it to be amazing but are always disappointed.
I have spent my last dollar on the project, I will stick at 19r1 until it stops working in a few years, in between I will, like many others, learn something new, get used to having to use more than 1 IDE or just stop supporting certain platforms (thats me, windows will be unsupported when 19r1 stops working).
thats apparently my job 
THIS ^^^ RIGHT HERE !!!
thats a great way to say it
Waiting to be amazed
19r.1 will probably work til hell freezes over on Windows - thats just the nature of Windows
yes 2 million would pay 20 coders at 50,000 a year (you want more, don’t be greedy) each and have 1 million left to have 2 administration staff, a web master and a marketing person.
what is left is profit for the boss and a big party once a year at a conference.
mmmm, those figures look great, why are there only 11 coders at Xojo?
The company has 11 staff
There arent 11 coders
The list is here
https://forum.xojo.com/members/name?search=Xojo+Inc
Or you can count the bodies in the picture here
https://blog.xojo.com/2016/10/11/xdc-2016-recap/
But you’ll see I’m still listed but I’m not there
Neither is Joe
EDIT : and Javier wasnt there so the old picture is pretty close
AWWWWW, uncle norman, I am here to support your negativeness, its not a curse, its a badge of honour! (yes I did spell it correctly)
19r1 may work on windows until hell freezes over (which apparently is statistically more likely now as all the oil that originally insulated the globe has been sucked up and been used to make loads of eco friendly products like electric cars and wind farms) but I don’t care about windows nor support it to any great extent, my worry is MAC and linux, more so Pi or other such SBC that are a very significant market to be exploited.
In partial defense of Xojo, I had a chat last year with Geoff. Xojo and I share a problem; that’s Apple. In recent years, Apple’s lack of care with their macOS and poor level of documentation, means many Mac developers have to re-write chunks of their app (because if you want backwards compatibility go to Windows), and with poor documentation, often the first couple of tries works, but doesn’t work well.
I am only one person and I spend probably half a year chasing Apple, which is 6 months I don’t spend improving my own apps, adding functionality my customers want and so on.
Of course this doesn’t excuse things like API 2.0, which currently adds zero benefit to me, and actively dissuades me from using a newer version of Xojo. Like most developers who use Xojo, we have a list of things that we need Xojo to change/fix, and these were/are ignored.
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yup, I know that, and why the feck you are not there, well, none of my business.
but, it is to some point, losing key members of a team, and from my completely isolated and long distant, totally irrelevant point of view (as seen from Xojo towers).
a team member that is front and center, is engaged in such a positive manner with the users of the product (via the forum), is a respected (at least by me) programmer who does the dog food method of coding every day, that person is central to me and probably many many other users depending on some rational explanation of what madness has just been released upon the user base.
that member of the team is no longer there, I was shocked when I realized that was the case, I then lost my faith in Xojo when you and Dave S were banned from Xojo forum, its their ball, I know, but a ball needs someone to kick it back or its just a ball being kicked away.
Anyway, thanks to all for replying to this topic, I feel no better than at the start, BUT at least I know there are lots of people who would love the get a Xojo that was focussed on what Xojo is good at, or was good at!
Where I live $50,000 would be ridiculously low for a good (or any!) coder and not easy to live on in general.
Unfortunately once I stop working (which may be sooner than I would like!) my social security will be a lot less than that! But that is how the USA rolls for retirement.
-Karen
Hi Sam,
Sorry I was typing a well considered reply to the topic (smaller rant actually, but I can play all day at English prose)
You are I know probably the top dog in the understanding of apples feck ups and wanting to make life hard for any developer.
That does not in any way excuse (in my modest opinion) why Xojo spent MASSIVE investment, of all the users on the forum and beyond, subscriptions, in a path called android, its too late, almost no one can ever make money from an android app, we all know the first version will be shite, etc.
we can all pop over to B4A and get a superb environment, its free now, and they also have a half decent B4i which makes Xojo iOS look like the Scooby and Shaggy version of how to make a compiler (without the addons made by the well known guys)
why do I mention this, well none of that can be blamed in any way on apple.
we now have a number of well known ‘Power’ users of the tool who are likely to stop updating and stay at 19r1 or move along to a different platform/method of code creation.
It saddens me to know that anyone sticking with API1 has been completely abandoned, nothing whatsoever related to API1 will ever be fixed, updated or considered from now on.
that Sam is where my malaise emanates, anyone using 19r1, or earlier, is simply of no interest at all to Xojo, they are completely and utterly abandoned.