If Arm Ever Arrives

Having read lots of speculation regarding an ARM Mac product (it will come, but who knows when) I shuddered at the thought of its Xojo code performance if the current single thread limitation (in general, not cooperative threading as in other compilers) is still the norm.

one of the constant expectations of this completely non existent product is that the ARM version may well have a VERY large number of cores, perhaps 12 or more of differing levels of power and computational ability which will give the devices the performance we all expect.

Am I the only one who is getting a bit concerned that Xojo as a company are utterly bereft of the ability to cope with this (completely theoretical) scenario.

I dare not move away from 19r1 as the current offering is in total disarray to say the least.

this change (when it comes) might be a real hard nut to crack when there are a lot of other orphaned components in Xojo:-
android, what a complete pointless exercise, too late and, who cares anymore
iOS, half baked and seemingly abandoned, significant opportunity missed, boat sailed a long time ago
web, can’t talk about what is or is not going on there but seems half baked again
can no longer compile a Mac app on a windows machine, and yes I know why, but thats not an excuse
API2, WTF, go away and die, perhaps a good idea, but so badly implemented etc…

maybe I am feeling very sad that my favourite tool for writing code is running ever faster downhill to the bottom of an increasingly small niche market.

anyone got some ‘good news’ thoughts to counteract my abysmal feeling of doom and gloom regarding the current state of what I have always wanted to be the ‘reasonable’ of everything compiler, my Xojo.

I am getting to the point that I am going to abandon completely support for newly arriving systems (easy in my world of embedded and bespoke enterprise stuff) and stop entirely updating Xojo beyond my current PRO licence.

when 19r1 stops working then I will just retire properly, I no longer need to be on the treadmill, I am beginning to feel the fun is going out of my beloved way of passing time, looks like my radio will get more love in the years to come.

I am sorry to rant on like this, but you can’t say anything on the other forum and, I am like most others here, I very much want to have Xojo be the best (or just average actually) compiler in the world, but knowing its just going to feck up and die slowly, like being a spurs supporter.

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uh … :man_shrugging:

I get the sense there are a lot of people who have these worries but the other place doent like you to express them

dunno what else to say

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I would like to think some one has a positive thought to add, but if you, Norman, can’t throw a rose into the ring I suspect I will, like many others, just give up on Xojo in the future.

I am seeing absolutely nothing to compel me as a 13 year user of Xojo to buy a new subscription, I absolutely do not want in any way to use the stupid API2 stuff, however much it is sold as a shiny new good thing.

I really hate the ‘var’ thing, how on earth can that be any more understandable than dim (or any other phrase) to a ‘new’ programmer, why the heck do we need either of them?

I am hijacking my own thread off subject!

even more now, why the feck (see the swearing thread!) do Xojo think its important to turn the language into a toy that every idiot out there can use to create ‘apps’.

Well, the GOOD NEWS is that Microsoft, Google, and potentially even Apple seem to be getting into the cross-platform market (incl Web, iOS, Android) … WITH visual IDEs. And free to boot. So there are some exiting times ahead.

I’m currently dipping my toes into Swift, and the problem isn’t that it’s “difficult” but that there is so much more to everything. I finally understand why Xojo has the reputation of being a toy language. I still think it is a great beginner’s language, and MBS does a lot to level the playing field, but I also find that while I figure out how to use the plugin functionality I mostly learn how to do the same in Swift much easier and quicker.

@doj I felt the same way about API 2 initially, but after biting the bullet and updating to 2019.3.1, I’m fine with it and don’t find it “in total disarray” at all. Like you, I’m a long-time user and dislike Var (and AddRow for one-dimensional arrays, and a few other unnecessary imo semantic changes), but Dim and Append still work. I’m hopeful about the roadmap and think they’re going in a good direction.


I would expect that if the ARM switch is announced by Apple, Xojo engineers will get the new Xcode version and rebuild all C parts of the framework and update compiler & linkers. Then you get a new entry in the popup and you can probably just build FAT Binaries for Mac which include 64-bit Intel + ARM code in one file.

Rebuild all your apps and enjoy them on old or new hardware.

And while I see a few valid points in the rant, please remember the majority of Xojo developers do desktop database apps. Some build small shareware, others tools for their work and some even bigger products. What funds the company are those developers, who simply renew licenses to get improvements on the stuff they use.

has mostly non-desktop priorities :slight_smile:
What generates revenue for Xojo isnt where they focus
I think thats the frustration

EDIT : Yes I know why they pursue these things but I suspect some peoples frustration is with the prioritization of them and the seeming lack of attention to their bread and butter items


please remember the majority of Xojo developers do desktop database apps

If that’s true, then why has 90% (easily 90%, possibly 95%) of Xojo’s development effort over the last 5+ years gone into things other than desktop database apps? It’s all been iOS, Web, and Android, with barely any new features for desktop apps and zero new features for database apps.

For desktop applications, it’s basically been frozen in place for about a decade. They’ve done the absolute minimal work necessary to partially support some new OS features and fix breakages caused by new OS releases.

And that’s more than they’ve done for database applications. Xojo has done basically nothing to make it a good tool for database apps, and they haven’t been resting on their laurels, because they don’t have any laurels. Xojo has never provided anything but the most rudimentary, mediocre ability to quickly build database apps. You basically have to do everything yourself.

Why then is Xojo investing almost exclusively in things that “most” of its customers don’t use?

There are “current users” and “prospective users”. Prospective users wants mobile and web as, and sometimes more than, desktop.

Marketing 101
Its cheaper and easier to up sell and retain existing user than it is to gain new ones

That’s administration 101. Also this one: “If you don’t continuously add new users, you’ll die, because old users also die”.

The “sweet spot” is keeping old users happy while attracting new ones. :slightly_smiling_face:

Involve your users and you can have both.

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Word of mouth is a great sales and marketing tool
Those old users will evangelize a product FOR FREE if you give them reason to

The infographic on this pages is fun

While the percentages may vary from site to site they do seem to be fairly representative from the places I’ve looked
Would be nice to have @Lynn or someone who IS a marketer chime in

or demonize if if you give them reason to :imp:

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I hate to say it, but are they doing either of these?

I’m sure if you asked they would say they are
But how many people here have AutoRenew on ?
How many have not renewed in years ?
I never knew these metrics but I think they’d be relevant

not me


heh … ok …
1 :slight_smile:
but you get the gist of my questions :slight_smile: