Genius and Europe

It is difficult to get unbiased reporting and analysis. The noise to signal ratio in the media is terrible.

1 Like

Well, he is right about the forum. As long as they are not forcing people to use the forum or do register people w/o consent (what they are NOT doing). It becomes more complicated when a EU citizen will ask to get everything deleted, or an information of what they have stored about us. Okay, this of course is theoretical right we have and difficult to endorse from small companies. This guy from Austria (Tech companies like Facebook not above the law, says Max Schrems | Data protection | The Guardian) forced Facebook years ago to get a print out of what they had stored about him :slight_smile: .

What is undoubtedly an issue in the EU is their homepage using third party content providers w/o asking the enduser for consent. It is the whole purpose of the GDPR that the users are protected and have to be asked. I just can’t inform the reader on my page: that they should not click on anything. I can only collect data after a consent has been given, or I don’t collect anything.

1 Like

Or does that, like so many things, depend on your particular political viewpoint ?
Ask such a question in the USA for instance and you will get wildly different answers from each political perspective.

The other issue is that now, unlike say 4 years ago at the start of the pandemic, things probably have gotten better. But is that a result of Brexit ? Or just economies returning to more normal condition ?

That may be hard to determine

1 Like

I suppose the belief that

We are not legally bound to the GDPR as we are not a European-based company nor does the United States have an agreement with the EU in this matter.

is indicative of the overall attitude
And it extends beyond the forum

But, until or unless someone makes a case of it, they’ll continue to do as they please

Its only a few people who still bother using Xojo’s web presence…

1 Like

Although UK voted to leave the EU in 2016 Brexit did not happen until 31st January 2020 ( due to reprehensible attempts to thwart democracy ), then we went straight into economic lockdowns due to COVID-19 and from that to an energy crisis due to Russia invading Ukraine.

What are you expecting to see?

Not much. In the essence, we have enough problems and challenges in our own countries.

1 Like

exactly, and it’s usually inefficient to debate politics on the internet. This is easier with legal questions because they are fact-based enough. “Nul n’est censé ignorer la loi” was written in the Napoleonic Code as early as 1804. And just as little as we are entitled to interfere in UK law because there is no longer EU law, non-EU countries must comply with the law that applies here, just like EU countries have to.

American car companies also have to install a speedometer with km displays if they want to sell the cars here and vice versa. And if I’ll travel to the US I will need my ESTA, and can’t just argue that the Americans don’t anything similar when visiting Europe. I might disagree, but I won’t enter the US if I don’t comply.

Of course, it’s true that Xojo is so insignificant that probably nobody will complain, but that doesn’t make it any more legal or even right.

1 Like

hmm, the US is pretty straightforward. You only get exactly 2 different answers, don’t you? :slight_smile: .

The only thing that matters in the US is how constituencies are redrawn by the party in power before an election :slight_smile: .

1 Like

If Xojo Inc had a physical store in Texas and an EU citizen went in to purchase Xojo on CD would you still think the EU had jurisdiction over the transaction?

Of course
But unless someone makes a complaint its so small & insignificant that it flies under the radar with impunity
IF someone did make a complaint that would change things I’m sure
But even the folks in Brussels might disregard it as insignificant


On the internet things are less clear as to where the transaction occurs - unlike a physical store where it is unambiguous

1 Like

Quite but if I were ordering goods online from a US store I would not expect English law to apply.

Except where the USA has a treaty regarding certain aspects of the law WRT to English citizens

like GDPR does

Would I expect you to know such a treaty exists ? No
Would a company doing business internationally like this ? probably

However, I do expect that we will get to the point where ignorance of the law IS a valid defence. No reasonable man can be expected to know all of them and finding such things is increasingly difficult

Ok, then let’s order some drugs from Columbia and some fake Shirts from China. Ok, that’s customs related :-).

But as Norman stated, opposed to physical goods the delivery of digitally things are commonly less clear. That’s what the EU tried to solve by stating that our rules / laws apply. There is a reason why the Los Angeles Times and others shut down their websites for EU access for quite a few months, as they were not able to be compliant.

France’s laws on encryption are a good example:

Xojo encrypting their license key (My assumption, I have no idea) is likely Okay. Selling encryption software to France falls under the regulation and it doesn’t matter if you are based in the UK, America, or Europe.

Cryptography law - Wikipedia.

That’s how Mr Zuckerberg is arguing as well :slight_smile: and Genius … Zuckerberg is learning his lesson, G … :wink:

Zuckerberg has an army of lawyers, or can HAVE an army of lawyers to know this stuff
So on that I’d call BULLSHIT

Xojo ?
Not in the same league even with millions of users :stuck_out_tongue:

It seems Verhofstadt’s Imperialist fantasy is quite widely shared in the EU.

In the same league as no one is suppose to ignore or violate the law, right? If I am wrong my private and business life will become much easier.

But again, I would have voted for Brexit only to get ride of those cookie consents. And yes, I do agree that most of those laws are insane and behind reality. But I know that can’t do anything else than adhering to the regulations. On the other hand not too much has changed. If I am not allowed to sell a cambert made of unpasteurized milk to the US, I will have to put into a can :wink:

For instance I am still surprised how Xojo can charge your credit card w/o us going through 2 factor authentication, especially for subscriptions models. But again, too small to fail, too small to get noticed …

Oh heck no. Yes, there are 2 main political parties but city vs country, geographical areas, and even state by state and sometimes county by county differences politically. I would say part of the problem with politics in the US is that there are only 2 political parties and therefore it becomes a binary choice and with so many things going on it’s hard for 2 parties to cover everyone. So people pick and choose what’s important to them and hold their nose at the things they dislike about that party. I would argue that’s not a real choice that’s just figuring out what devil you can live with.

I used to live in a rural state (Kansas) but in one of the top 10 wealthiest counties in all of the US. We are right next to a very poor county in Kansas and yet part of a much larger metropolitan area that covers 9 counties in 2 states and the city of Kansas City, Missouri having some areas of extreme poverty and violence but yet sports clubs, museums, and a lot of good restaurants. So there’s a lot going on and most people just want something that works for most people.

I spent a year living in Hong Kong (just after the Chinese handover) working with people (literally) from all over the world on the (then) new airport. We worked hard during the day and went out to the clubs and bars at night. At the end of the day everyone wants a better life for their family and especially their kids. That’s pretty universal. How we get there is open for a lot of debate.