yes you may be right but the doc problem has been discussed over and over
the problem with continious critize we see here won’t help nothing, proof in here
and some people here might do all they can to trash xojo, if they succeed, and xojo inc goes out of business, what will you do ? you’re revenues depends on xojo afaik, so what will you do, you have a plan ?
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Several years ago I was really worried that Xojo would add just enough code signing, that I’d see a significant drop in customers.
So I devised a plan, part of that was scarpered when DesktopControls came out and losing a spot in the Omegabundle.
I’ve gone through all the emotional stages now and I am at acceptance (albeit still feel bitter about it). If it all goes Pete Tong, then so be it. I know enough Objective-C to port my Mac apps, or perhaps it’s time to try something new.
I have tried to offer my help to Xojo (in more ways than one), but I distinctly get the feeling they don’t see a need for it. There is so much value I could add to the product, but I don’t feel any of it is welcome.
Btw: I don’t want to see them go out of business, I’ve just reached a point where I’m no longer want to try to prevent it. I’ll renew when and if they bring something to the table that makes me want to renew, but if only API 2.0 is getting bug fixes, then I fear it might be a very long time before I do.
I honestly believe that the recent price increases illustrates how much the loss of that unprofitable segment cost them.
Without accepting it, they repeatedly made the same mistake and ignored a very valid reason as to why customers left (before being cut off), limitations to the product.
They appear to hope the language changes will attract new customers, but a portion of those will reach the same unresolved limitations and be forced to leave frustrated also.
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Very true. I dropped my previous platform because years of overpromising and underdelivering have put the product in tatters. It was a constant ignoring of professional developers, who now leave in numbers. Instead of fixing the problems and being committed to their customer base, they try to attract the new customer. This doesn’t work.
At Xojo, I am now such a new customer. After the first good impression (to which the old documentation contributed), I ran into issues while exploring the IDE. The search function of the new documentation is nuts.
If there is no clear path communicated until December, how Xojo will remediate the situation, I will move on. Not going again into a hell where professional devs are ignored, form dominates function, product quality goes down and prices go up.
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I just want to clarify something here. Xojo in the right hands (with the right experience) is still a fairly capable tool, even with it’s limitations.
If someone asked me if Xojo would be a good fit of their app, I’m going to asses if I think it is capable before answering, but if I think they’re going to have problems, or that it easier in a different tool, I will state that.
If Xojo really is the best choice, then I will suggest that they use the free trial to build their app before paying and if they continue and decide to pay, disable “Auto-renew” and ONLY upgrade when a new Xojo version offers them something tangible. Otherwise they’ll be like us and pay for things which may make their live harder.
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We are going a bit off topics but I believe both of you, Torsten B. and you are right. If and when Xojo does not get to a better communication and a better Bug Management and to faster Bug Fixing there will be a problem for professional users.
On the other Hand the users which have already bigger applications out they have a real problem: tons of work are made in Xojo and so they will stay and hope - from Update to Update. I personally do not believe that this is fixable while Xojo has too many major problems to avoid this situation. With a few devs (okay, you said 5, maybe 7…) you can’t shoulder a package where you need to do the amount of work AND to maintain Bugfixes for the users.
And I agree with Torsten_B: when and if there is no chance it is possibly better to go away. That was the decision I made to get out of that. In my Case it was a Customers choice. I was before in another platform and went back. Especially while I have Web, Desktop and mobile Apps. (I even tried Xojo IOS but it needs too many declares to be able to work on the Hardware and has too less capabilities but many workarounds).
But on the other side: how shall Xojo fix that situation. It is not only the communication. It if the Release Cycle which makes it complex. Fast Releases are doing exactly that. Let’s speak truths: fast releasing is a dangerous animal. And I believe: they know it. But to come out of a fast release circuit is nearly impossible. While changing the release mode there will for a long time not be a new Version. And to serve parallel a new feature testing version will cost much more manpower than Xojo has.
I beliebt that there is a small chance for them to get to a good state at the moment. On the other Side the market shrinks for tools like Xojo, C#, Java, Kotlin, GO, Quasar, Flutter and many others are eating the same Cake and having a more wide userbase. That is a problem for enlarging the userbase. Because they all have the same features…Desktop, Web, mobile, Cloud, embedded, Xojo tries to deliver all these platforms to the customers. In the same moment here is no chance to get a bigger part of the market and to enlarge the team to be able to play the same game.
In this thread Xojo confirms that it relies on the ratio of automatic renewals as a key parameter of customer satisfaction. I switched off automatic renewal of my license in order to bring my concerns to Xojo’s metrics.
Exerting economic pressure is not my preferred way of voicing concerns since it requires funding to improve things. In the thread linked above, Xojo also states that members of the forum voicing concerns are only a small fraction of their customer base and that they take guidance from parameters like renewals. This reasoning brings us straight to economic pressure, which is unfortunate in this context.
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I have never understanded why people leave the autorenew, it makes no sense and almost a scam.
With the current release model, that “discount” is wortless as you have less releases for your purchase. Also it is very dangerous to use a new release for production.
Ah I misread and obviously misunderstood
I’d seen them in beta & disliked them as well
Very much so
I doubt this will happen
I would say its not geoff’s style to apologize to users
I tend to agree they dont think thy have done anything to earn all the disdain
It all comes down to_trolls_ and haters
it’s all someone else’ fault and doing
_We know better than you do … _
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Yeah, I did suggest they don’t do this as it’s only inflammatory. But I do know that Alyssa was very hurt by some of the comments from angry customers, which I tried to explain were made angry by Xojo’s actions.
which was? you can drop names here
Was Filemaker