Many Clients were changing the environment. To Vaadin (Java), to JavaFX, to Java Swing. And also other platforms (but then not my Customers cause I am mainly a Java programmer and JavaFX programmer). Like you said, the problem is: will it be around in five years.
99.9% of en users dont care about that…
Half of xojo controls are NOT native anyway.
But I get you, that old school RAD is not easy to leave. But once you abandon the prejudices…
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This is a really good Dunning-Kruger case study.
His own stupidity shields him from seeing how stupid his decisions really are.
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I’d almost forgotten they had jUST raised the price on Pro no more than 3 years ago (somewhere in early 2022)
TO jack it up again from 799 to 999 (25% increase) seems ..
bah
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Geoff : Norman, do you think creating all these bugs and closing all those feedback reports doesn’t cost me money? Somebody has to pay for it… So quit whining
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well I have had about 150 or so archived in the last month or less
and many other long time users have had the same
tbh there is NO chance in hell I’m recreating any of those requests even IF they still apply (which may still do)
Xojo : Winning friends & influencing people one crappy move at a time
EDIt : quick check suggests about 500 cases have been archived in the last 2 weeks
Not fixed, not implemented, just archived
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Xojo is more expensive with not only the price hikes, but also more expensive when bugs are swept under the rug.
Someone spent the time to detail to report which cost money ( in the form of time ) but then ignored.
It then becomes likely someone else will find the bugs and spend more time to report it again.
The money ask + the bug archiving shows a total lack of respect to paying customers.
If you keep using Xojo expect more of the same…
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Hi, the insane behavior of Xojo (over the last years and now finally in the last few days) has led me here.
Suddenly, I see many “old names” again - people who all just disappeared one day. ;(
Who would’ve thought.
I started with RealBasic at some point and have been a Xojo Pro user with an active license for ages.
Aside from endless bugs that show up after just minutes of use - and I seriously don’t understand how there are still people who seem to genuinely like this - there’s a leadership that must have completely cut ties with the outside world sometime in the 90s.
How else would you explain that they’re still trying to deliver software bricks to some pyramid construction site using horse-drawn carts?
Then there’s a user base that seems to live in complete fear that progress or change might somehow affect the world.
On top of all that, my recent communication with Geoff made it painfully clear: they’re not even remotely willing to step into the 21st century.
I’ve come to accept the whole steaming pile of garbage they’re selling at a premium price - simply because I can’t find anything quite like it on the market.
But what I can’t accept is this:
They forbid me from using modern tools (like GitHub Copilot) - tools that, to me, are as essential as air and water. For me, it’s a fundamental part of programming now.
Like a desk and a chair. I need it. I don’t want to write a single line of code without it anymore.
I asked for it since 2023. We have 2025 now. I’ve now been surviving without air and water for 2 years.
They’re welcome to make it work through a plugin system - I’ll build it myself.
BUT THE FUCKING IDE NEEDS TO SUPPORT PLUGINS!
They don’t want that. Maybe they’ll think about it…
But in Xojo time, if you want something to ship in less than 15 years, it has to already be “almost done” and “coming soon” now.
And in this situation - where it feels like every developer who’s not already retired is speaking negatively about Xojo - they announce a massive price increase.
It’s like:
Someone just keyed your car and shit on your doorstep…
Then walks into your house, sits on your couch, looks you in the eye and says:
“Make me a pizza. With salami and extra cheese. And bring me a beer.”
That’s what it feels like.
And because that’s still not enough, they go ahead and block any discussion about it.
Wait - multiple discussions.
And when that doesn’t work, they just make an entire section of the forum “private.”
I seriously considered just rebuilding the entire IDE from scratch.
And honestly, I can’t stop thinking about it.
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Welcome to the resistance.
When I first got tasked with using Go using VS Code I hated it. It was busy and there were many things to configure. I need to install what? Now, nearly 3 years later the extensibility of VS Code is amazing. Need a plist editor? Need a JSON editor? Just search for one and install it. Don’t like it? Get rid of it and find another. And yes, I can’t imagine doing any coding without some AI assistance now.
Xojo could have done all those if they had started ten years ago. But I doubt it will ever get anything even close. Their ‘closed’ approach has always been a drawback and will the a nail in the coffin.
Is VSCode perfect? No. Is Go perfect? Certainly not. But I get things done in a timely manner. That’s all I need for now.
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I feel the same with python and using pycharm… I can do anything with python. there is so many library to do anything I want.
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Is IntelliJ perfect? No. Is Java perfect? No. But I can write for all platforms. Desktop with Windows, Linux, MacOS. Webapplications running on all known Server platforms. Mobile Apps for iOS and Android. With much more functionality compared to the sad functionality of Xojo. And yes. I have to install stuffs, I have to configure stuffs. But at the end: I get every job done which I get on my table. And that since 1996. 29 years with high reliability and a stunning development speed. High stability and reliability.
I never saw there a Web 1 to 2 conversation or an API 1 to API 2 conversation. Yes, there where breaks. But that are ones you can live and exist with. Between Java 7 and Java 8 are big differences. Java 8 was the step into todays technology platform. It came 2014. In 2022 oracle endet with supporting and updating Java 7. Java 8 is until 2030 supported. But there is another difference: reworking between java 7 and 8 was not that much. And Software written and compiled with java 8 you can - in nearly all cases - compile with Java 24 with may be a few small code changes. My entire Business is based on Java with all my employees.
I am even free to use the IDE of my choice. In my case IntelliJIdea and Netbeans but also I could use Eclipse or vsCode. Okay, vsCode isn’t as comfortable as the Java IDE’s. And I am too lacy to change while I have real good IDE with AI assistent (IntelliJ).
That’s why I can’t understand why so many Xojo users believing they have the highest evolution of an IDE. And that beside the fact that stuffs like threading are implemented since the beginning.
So like at your site I can say: yes, I can do what ever I want to do. That’s it.
I think the ONLY thing Xojo does that many other IDE’s dont do is the visual representation of the layout. The drag and drop layout editor.
Its handy but I dont think its a show stopper to NOT have it TBH
In C# IDE’s hot reload is somewhat nicer as its literally reloading the code AS YOU DEBUG !
Very handy.
So you can debug & alter the UI at the same time
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I had Xelfi in 1998, later NetBeans IDE. Was years before with UI Designer which Netbeans still have. With a preview which has this name correctly while compiling the forms code to show the design within less than a second. JFormdesigner which I am using also since 2004 for several projects. All of them has one thing together: a brilliant preview
Never said no one had them
Visual Basic had one and several other niche products did well before the year 2000
But now few have one as declarative UI’s are more popular
I considered adding a drag and drop editor to the IDE I’ve been developing, instead I decided to work on a preview based on declarative UI - it’s currently a roadmap item.
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I’m glad it works for you.
When I finally decided to leave Xojo behind, I did seriously consider Java. Under my former employer I used C# and the Jetbrains IDE’s frequently, so it wouldn’t have been a difficult transition for me.
But then, because I’m moving more into the realm of a single platform (macOS) hobbyist these days, I feel like Java is overkill for what I want to do. The executable size of Xojo apps was one of my biggest complaints, so given the download size of some Java apps, that route would not make me happy. Java apps, I think, are more for commercial endeavours.
Which is why I like Swift & Xcode. Nice small executables, with relatively easy distribution options.
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ohhh yes. If I could work only with macOS and iOS I would write Software with Swift and SwiftUI. NO, really NO question about. It is reliable, stable, fast, comfortable. But not really cross platform.I could even consider writing in Object-C. And as a hobbyist when only writing for the platform: nothing else. That is the best and most native way you can go to get at the end platform optimized Software. The BEST way. No question. Java or also C# are interesting if you need to write cross platform. Writing web applications with Vaadin also is unbeatable. But for Desktop and mobile only on apple??? Yes Sir, correct and BEST way you go.
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Lazarus among others: Graphical user interface builder - Wikipedia
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Oddly every time I tried Lazarus it never worked
Never could figure out why but I just never had any luck with it or any of its off shoots
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So, the interesting thing is, we seem to be coming full circle as some of the declarative frameworks begin offering drag-and-drop options, e.g. Avalonia and Uno for C#/XAML.
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