Xojo is out of Tiobe index top 100

I started seeing this in 2019 when product sales and consulting started to nosedive. I’m glad I got out when I did.


Months between request for consultants definitely seems to indicate the flow of work has slowed to a trickle

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So it looks to have started with the introduction of API 2 … What a surprise… NOT!

  • Karen

Well I recall the betas around that time and the absolute hue & cry about how this was going to hurt projects

But, as so often happens, the feedback was ignored.
And Xojo suffers the effects of their hubris(?) of assuming that it would be easier to update than to move to something else (esp when it came to Web 2)

Some tried to convince them NOT to give users a good reason to look at other tools but they went ahead & did what they did

And the effects are theirs to live with

I’m sure Geoff et al would claim that “everything is fine & we’re doing way better than before”
But I’d personally call BS based on all the factors I can see from outside

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I was one of those complaining


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@thommcgrath and I are in complete agreement on this point. In my personal experience, whenever I’ve been forced to consider other options, it generally works out good for me as I tend to do my research and pick up something else that actually gives me benefits over replacing X with X.

The other thing I’d like to add is that I know Geoff was warned during the “2.0 All The Things™” design/early stages by his own team. He did his usual thing and dismissed the warning.

This was the biggest mistake of 'em all, he basically told long-time customers, I don’t care what you think. Don’t like it, go away.

Geoff literally lost customers to ensure his “vision” came through, that lack of insight, care, empathy and willingness to compromise/address customer needs is why Xojo cannot be trusted as a foundation for anyone’s business.

Geoff’s attitude towards us, has been the main driving force behind my decision to move on.

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< cough >
They’ll get used to it
< /cough >

or leave

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…one word: Hybris

We all once loved Xojo, the idea of a RAD x-platform tool, at least working for Mac, Windows and some Linux and Web stuff… We all did not want to switch to something else cause we’ve been comfortable with it. But now we moved on and our genius left behind. Not we were left behind, in the end he is the one left behind.

How old is he? How many years he has to work till Retirement? Old white man, ignorant and bitter, trying to imitate another passed Genius named Steve Jobs.

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Interesting choice. I’d never heard of it until you just mentioned it. 什麼是 hybris | SAP 的電子商務軟體

Means ‘hubris

That SAP named a product ‘Hybris’ doesn’t surprise me :wink:.


haha… meant more this kind of… :slight_smile:

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“Tragedy In The Land of Saps”

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I suspect he could retire now if he wanted to

Full retirement is age 67 for him. Well, you can retire early but then you have to pay your own health insurance and it hurts your social security payout.

I have reason to suspect those things arent an issue

There were plenty of Xojo devs complaining loudly. That was when I had my phone call with Geoff and he said that members of the pre-release program were not representative of the Xojo user base.

That was when I knew I was leaving. To say that to one of the bigger consultants and supporters was…well to put it succinctly…infuriating. My opinion (and yours) doesn’t count because he knows the user base better than we do.

Granted, he might know it better than us, but we’ve been around long enough to see and hear what people are saying. But I will say that I think our predictions have come true more often than not.


He doesn’t. They managed to make me understand that Xojo isn’t a sustainable IDE for my codebase in less than 6 months. A performance of its own kind.

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That was a given.

It always surprises me (but shouldn’t) how little he understands his own product and the importance of constant little improvements. Since I’m in the Go world these days I see the 5% improvement here, the 10% there, the tweaks to the language (while not breaking anything), the refactoring of gopls for AutoComplete, the security additions, small improvements in garbage collection, etc., and think about all the time and effort that Xojo wasted on API2, Android, and new documentation for all the pain and suffering it’s caused for such little, if any, gain. And I’m being extremely generous by saying there was any gain.


Vanity project?