I am AZUL Partner since years and I can not understand why people speak untrue; I guess it is half knowledge and that’s it.
Hey, come on. Not untrue and not half knowledge. There is an existing situation:
If I look at my customers I see the Oracle Java Runtime everywhere - installed by a lot of other vendors. And I see mySQL without licenses. What should I do there in your opinion? Leave? Discuss? Tell them to use another database? Tell them to get a license? Use two, three or more types of JRE? I would not get a contract.
I had a look at Azul - thank you for the links - and it did not change my thoughts. It looks nice but is no game changer for me. I like the LLVM and it was finally one of the reasons I choosed Xojo.
OK, OpenJDK may fit for you. And NOW. But what am afraid of is the strategy of the people at Oracle and even at IBM. They are very smart and know how to conquer a market. And they will succeed. Hit me and blame me as much as you want - I have the time to wait. And we will see how it will end in a few years.
By the way I do not like the way you bullocked Xojo here, even if this is a kind of Xojo-critical forum. This was the reason for my post, and I regret that I did that. Let me say: There is no ONE TRUTH, everything has pros and cons. I am sorry that you are disappointed so much - because I was in the past.
I think we both have complete different approaches for our business.
First of all: we where discussing about my Java Software where you told me that my customers have to pay Java license fees what is in fact untrue.
Second, again about my Software and MySQL: I am never using MYsql Databases and where ever I get them I take care that in my Software I am not using them. I can read them if and when they are installed on a customers System and I do this only to get old Data. After reading the old data the MYSQL is switched off. So I can tell you: not a problem my customers will ever have and the xojo customers have the same problem with MYSQL.
So OpenJDK and Oracle: they are smart and because of this they made the deal: they are allowed to use contributors Software and in the same moment they sell this as their closed source software they have to provide the entire Sourcecode what they are doing. Otherwise they could stop with Java Technology at all because they and before oracle Sun wrote nearly 70% of the code but not 100%. If they will stop to provide the Sourcecode and if they will stop to leave classpath exception there will not be a JAVA after. That they know cause they are smart.
Guilty for the classpath exception are AZUL and AdopbtopenJDK. otherwise Oracle would never be able to set their supported Version closed source like it was before. Now you will get the same Java as Oracles Java but not supported by oracle. What you pay for is the JAVA Support. And I can understand. We are paying also Java Support. But we do not have to charge any of our customers.
And yes, there are big differences. One difference is that I am not willing to accept if a business partner is behaving like xojo was. Maybe it is not nice for people like you to get out of your comfort zone. But I have to feed programmers and technicians every month so it is exactly my Business to have an development environment which is working. And until xojo 2020 I was never complaining. It started with a complete chaotic xojo 2020 where you had nearly 130 back steps in front of xojo 2019r32. Also you had changes after releasing 2020 from Version to Version. So: this is not consistency. This is nothing you can work with. And I would not say even one word if they would get out the Showstoppers of 2019r32 compiler and API and if they would fix the IDE problems. They would never again hear one word.
So: in my opinion it is strictly not okay to behave like this. Strictly said: first get out the known errors, second bring out new functionality. And like you See byself: all Errors in 2019r32 where reported already. Some of them where noticed as fixed. Bit not in an Update for 2019. So I was now stocked in the situation that I will have a xojo which will never work really reliable. Even the Answer that big amounts of data should be handled in another language: hard to accept, isn’t it?
On top of this xojo 2019r32 was officially deprecated and the documentation was out of the web. So: no documentation, no maintenance anymore but a new product which forces to write all the software new you have written before. If you would develop for the medical environment you would know in this moment: my investment is lost completely because you have no chance to get a certificate of conformity with an IDE which is deprecated. So: until 2023 I could sell, after this it would have to end. The problem is that my customers are getting the product between one and one and a half year after the Software Development process is ended to the market.
Because of this situation I have lost thousands of development hours and the work of years. I don’t think that you would accept this.
As my lawyers said, in case MYSQL the use we are doing is correct because we are using it under GPL in the conditions the GPL allows the use. I was also contacting the legal office of oracle for this and got the answer that I am allowed to use MYSQL under this conditions without any license fee. Because we only connect to MYSQL Databases it would not even be interesting but one of my customers is using it.
So where is my missed point in managing a company following to the best practice standards? I really want to know.
You should help me to understand where you have the problem with Java Software made with OpenJDK where Oracle has no chance to get rights on (IT is GPL with classpath exception and we are not implementing not GPL Software we have not the explicit permission of the vendor). Oracle can not get the ownership of it because free Software is once declared free Software. And this has a turning back functionality.
So wen can speak about technology which is not implemented in OPENJDK. This ones we are not using anyhow.
Oracle writes about Java Development for your information: The official Reference Implementation for Java SE 11 (JSR 384) is based solely upon open-source code available from the JDK 11 Project in the OpenJDK Community.
So I guess you don’t care that there is Open Source licensing and classpath exception? Okay, read about it.
The next question is the Development: what is if they make it closed source? The short answer: they can not because the open Software foundation will give them a court ex course what this means.
So: in my Business the most counting is the security of the Software users. In and under all circumstances.
Your thinking that maybe I will have the problem (you said you have time) that something is happened I can tell you: I am building embedded Systems which are not connected to the internet because there is no need for connecting. Cybersecurity we are providing because we could maybe have the need for connecting devices. But in the end of this process I can tell you: IF there would be the need of a change because of licensing policies of somebody like oracle or whatever you think about then it will be in a decade or in two decades.
If I am looking on xojo Web I can tell you that, comparing to Xojo vaadin Apps can be builded much more secure then xojo apps will ever be produced. The most security issues nobody is getting because nobody is checking. And this is okay. But do you really mean that you can tell me that you are on the better way in that tone after all xojo, inc was behaving and that you can tell me what my meaning and thinking should be?
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