Xojo Hmmmm 🤔

“we have to start some where”

But didn’t they do THAT over seven years ago? Tells me that the initial design didn’t cover the “basics” (no pun intended)


I know of at least two restarts of the entire Android project. So there was certainly some pressure to finally deliver something.


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This is the way.

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Well, for Xojo that’s true. But for most other programming languages and IDEs it’s not. For those AI is already a fact and useful in 2023.

If you leave out the justified copyright and security discussions, the tools are useful, very useful - even today. Less in the sense that complete apps are written, but autocomplete gets better, error messages can be interpreted, repetitive tasks are simplified via suggestions, etc. And very often you even get useful suggestions just by writing in a comment what should happen when next. Of course, AI sometimes fantasizes, but so do users on stackoverflow and Reddit.

I’m not talking about using chatGPT as yet another search engine, but included AI helpers (Github CoPilot, Jetbrain’s integrated AI in the lastest IDEs etc.)

BUT, I haven’t the faintest idea how this is supposed to happen in Xojo:

  • The IDE is already slow today
  • The autocomplete is already faulty and lame today
  • In addition, a solid, public code base to feed AI with Xojo Code is missing
  • I’ve always criticized Xojo for not separating Web1 and Web2 threads. How is an AI supposed to be able to differentiate correctly here? Not at all! The same will apply to API1 and API2…
  • Parts of the AI magic (training the systems) happens through feedback. Are the suggestions useful or not, will the code get changed, etc. I’m afraid that the Xojo user base is by far too small to become competitive with any modern language in the AI universe.
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I asked Bard how to load a text file with Swift and it gaves me:

The result runs, ask to choose a file, but none is selectable… (with .txt or without).

I had fun with Bard AI, lately.

Google might not endorse Swift too much :wink: - of course it is often no different than asking reddit or stackoverflow but at least you don’t see all the comments and therefore not the abysses of humanity :slight_smile: .

You may want to look here:
Video: https://developer.apple.com/videos/play/wwdc2023/10056/
Sample code: https://developer.apple.com/documentation/swiftui/building-a-document-based-app-using-swiftdata

Spoiler: this only works from Swift v6 and Xcode v15 on.

Using the same reference, “I have spoken” also works. :slight_smile:

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More comedy gold:

Genius overperforming… In this country you normally have to spend a lot of money for theater performances of this high standard.


I look at this and shake my head in wonder. If this Xojo ‘expert’ doesn’t know what his own product has in it already, and can’t be bothered to do research (on his own product), it makes me wonder how far gone is he? I mean this is not the first Issue I’ve seen where he asked for something and either staff or user explains that it’s not a bug or that it’s working as expected.

In the ideal world the CEO should be one of the most knowledgeable people about their product. Instead, I feel like we’re getting a ‘citizen developer’ (not a knock on citizen developers) with only rudimentary knowledge - and not just about Xojo but development in general.


Now we know why they are looking for a technical writer, looks like that person has to sit close to genius and explain, explain, explain …

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I wonder if we are looking at a case of cognitive decline or a case of continued overconfidence. In aeronautics the term overconfident is employed for people who are so convinced of their superior intellect and ability to handle situations that they fail to double-check or accept warnings from peers. This behavioural pattern has lead to a number of fatal crashes. Companies can crash, too…The product has already crashed.

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Yes, sometimes pilots are miscalculating wind and so starting to land in wrong angle and speed. Ends at their funeral

Our wanna-be Steve Jobs acting like a donkey, lacking basic knowledge on concepts or his own product or on both.

Poor staff… led by a donkey.


Xojo and genius’ input - this will be a tough nut for many AI systems … :slight_smile: - But probably AI systems specialized in antiques will manage such challenges.

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For Swift version I do not know.

For XCode, I have v 14.3.1; I downloaded it some weeks ago and no new version is available (no update is flagging…).

You may talk about the version for a not yet released MacOS…

ummmm… we are only at Swift 5.8.1 and Xcode 14.3.1