We have also to see their situation. It is a big problem when you realize in the middle of a development: hey, I need to do it in a complete different wise. And then you have also to find for al the stuffs solutions. That is hard especially for Android. We both know that. And it sounds simple to write with Java or Kotlin directl an Android app. But in truths: it is work and it is a complex beast what ever you do on a machinery like this. And to build the toolchain is a hard piece of work. So I guess, and that we also have to see, that it costs really all their power to gget it realy for release. Thay have to do that. Otherwise there would be no Android. And I really see that there will be an end somewhen.
Iām wondering how bad the backlash will be when people start using it and go, huh, 7 years of development and this is all there is?
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And you can get a feel for that state of affairs
I tend to think you are right that there will be high expectations
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Will be the same like the expectations people had when opening Web 2.0 IDE first time. Expectation was: has all the needed functionality of Web 1 and the projects can be converted in seconds like promised. The result all of us know.
Lets just say I could spin you a tale but Iām not permitted to 
3 posts were split to a new topic: Xojo future
Since they were drifting off the āAndroidā topic I split them into a new thread
I appreciate your position, but I found that I could convert my iOS to android in such a way that I could help the developers by finding (and eventually fixing) quite a few bugs. I now have an app that runs on OSX, Windoze, iOs and Android. I look forward to Xojo folks actually getting to the point when the Android version is no longe run Beta. Of course, I appreciate that could take some timeā¦
Good statement
I had a look on Xojo Android. Made me laughing. Table without Columns is only one of the things. And debugging oinly if the project is not too big. And many things more. I am really happy that I am developing mobile with CN1. Debugging works, Workflow local Build is working like a charm. Remembers me to something I believe said before: do not try to develop Software with a crap like that. Beside the fact that you have nearly no functionality you get also: shit, crap and workarounds. No need for that. And what you have here is the same: resulting in bad programming it is not working correctly.
Androids material UI components dont have a multi column table
Cant blame Xojo for that one
Hahaha that was good. A missing of multi column tablesā¦usability:0
NM - seems I AM wrong on this
Material 2 has an oddly named DATA TABLE
And it supports rows & columns
Xojo appears to only support the MD LIST
So yeah CAN blame them for that
My bad !
EDIT : But MD 3 doesnt seem to have any such component
Just single column LISTS
Weird
not sure what Xojo uses - Material 2 or 3
So maybe can blame them for this - or not ???
Material 2 by the way. And yes, also CN1 uses Material. And what shall I sayā¦it works with the fundamental stuffs, even a tablemodel which works really good.
They implemented everything only 20% and selling this as Android. Starting by a Mini Tablet Size (mostly 7" having this resolution) followed by leaking Bluetooth and not really working hardware implementation. It is more interesting to work with cn1, at least for me.
I want to write Software and not to point out how to solve this stupid stuffs. Even for having Buttons with Backgrounds and different Color I need to write extra Software. I canāt get why people are suffering from this.
On the other side I have with CN1 my Android Builds with Android Studio. Without any problem. And I have both: a quick simulator to really check my logic and a native Android Simulator. And I can debug on real Hardware also without any problem. Stuffs Xojo has itās bigger problems with.
Also I have less Bugs. The most Bugs I see in Debugging are Thorsten Stuekers own Bugs. And that is what I want to have instead of an unusable IDE and Compiler and Language and Implementation.
Yes M2 has the Data Table
MD 3 doesnt - not sure what the replacement for Data table is or will be
They can debug locally & on hardware
BUT their bridge to adb is ridiculously slow - you have to turn off breakpoints to make it usable and so you rely on printf debugging
I use Rider with C# and debug on device & in qemu all the time
Its nowhere near as slow
Me too. At least I know when I have one its what I wrote - like you see as well
Thatās exactly the point. And yes, remote debugging on real Hardware costs time but it is not the same form of russian roulette like it is all time with Xojo. It is reliable and working all the time. And - as a small goodie - with CN1 I get also always a Desktop application with my Build which I can also deploy with JDeploy without any problems to Windows, Mac and Linux. So I have - except Web - all platforms. And - I guess it is not shocking you - grabbing the application logic to Vaadin I can use it and write a Webapplication with high Server performance and state of the art Web technology. Thatās a big difference.
And yes, I am using this toolchain since years and for long time in future. Cause both, JavaFX and also Java Swing are long time around. Both are still supported, Swing is still part of the JVM. Results are fast and reliable. Thatās enough for me. Most mobile Apps are Android ones, often with Barcode Reader Hardware and so on. I can implement the Android native Code within the CN1 Project without any neckbraking declares.
On the other Hand I have fast Desktop application design. It works. Looking for Customers on Xojo stuffs is like getting pushed back in the early beginning of the 2000. Then was Netbeans fresh on the market and not as stable and reliable as it is today. But all time more than real basic. People writing Software with Xojo all time suffering. And trust me, I really triued to help the Android Customer to rescue his work. But it was not possible. Or let me say: it was decades faster to rewrite with CN1 the entire Stuff. Is it native? No. Is it running without problems? Yes. Can he build at his site? Yes. Does he has top pay for CN1? Not a penny. He does. To support the Job they are doing he pays around 29 Bucks a month. Not so much money.
We all have to get our Jobs done. And nobody even cares how we do this. They care only about the result of the work.
In the meantime I wrote also with GO. I like it. Okay, the loops are a bitā¦ But: it works and is reliable. Nothing to say against. And I also wrote a few projects for Android with Android Studio. Yes, thatās at the end native and works. But I am more flexible when and if I can steal from my work for example on a Desktop Software. Thatās what I would expect also from Xojo. But the leaky functionality makes it impossible.
the only two names i have ever heard, since the beginning, are ādata gridā and ādata tableā. why is ādata tableā surprising? is there some other term that i missed?
i donāt see it being removed in MD3. in fact, i see it discussed on several MD3 pages:
layout basics
selection
glossary
am i missing something?
Just not something Iād expected it to be named and never found that until recently (and only in M2 docs)
I just didnt see it on any of the components pages for Material 3
Its on the MD 2 pages Material Design
But I dont see it on MD3 Search - Material Design 3
Trust me I could EASILY be wrong but I just dont see it there
right, but when i read the MD docs, i donāt take each one as comprehensive. it always seems to me that they build on one-another. i donāt like it, but i think thatās what theyāre doing with them - more like release notes or commit notes.
if MD got rid of data tables, there would be a revolt in the dev community. i canāt imagine them doing it. corporate apps, especially, demand tables.
Hmm. I guess you are right. Xojo did exactly that.
Dunno
but It makes for a very disjointed set up as to whether I should read MD3 or MD2 doc sets
like reading API1 vs API2 in Xojo and we all know how much THATās loved 