WTF is the actual point of ICloud?

Looks better than beOs UI

I always use dark themes, they don’t give me asthenopia.

Haiku OS UI looks clean and functional. Stack and tile is a nice feature for windows.

I personally think useability is more important than flashy looks.

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I think you are not selling your software on haiku OS. if there is no need for selling something you can go for it and have fun :blush:

You still haven’t told us why BSD was a bad choice for Apple…

The same reason Linux still sucks on desktop. Try running BSD of that era on a 386 or 486 hardware with 16 MB of RAM. After that, try the same with BeOS or even OS/2.

Why choose 30 years old OS architecture for a desktop OS? Would have made much more sense to buy BeOS or QNX. If they wanted UNIX OS, they already used AIX on their ANS line.

You obviously don’t know the actual history. OS X (now macOS) is not directly based on BSD, it is based on NeXTSTEP, the OS Steve Jobs created after Apple booted him out. Hense why so many of the core API components begin with ā€œNSā€.

Apple didn’t make any decision on the OS, Jobs did. Part of the deal when Jobs came back to Apple was that they had to buy his NeXT company as well. Jobs probably insisted on this because he knew NeXTSTEP was going to be the future for Apple, as NeXTSTEP was a very advanced OS already.

Now NeXTSTEP is indeed based on BSD, but only part of it. It combines the Mach kernel with BSD to make a hybrid OS. I can’t say for sure, but I’m guessing Jobs (or his engineers) knew about the deficiencies of BSD which is why they combined it with the Mach kernel.

Here’s some Google AI summaries of the above:

Modern macOS is based on NeXTSTEP, the operating system from NeXT, the company Steve Jobs founded after leaving Apple. Apple acquired NeXT in 1997 and used NeXTSTEP as the foundation for its next-generation operating system, Mac OS X (now called macOS). This Unix-based foundation solved many of the technical limitations of the classic Mac OS.

  • Acquisition and transition: Apple purchased NeXT and its NeXTSTEP operating system to build a successor to the classic Mac OS.

  • Technical foundation: NeXTSTEP was a Unix-based system that served as the new technological bedrock for macOS, iOS, iPadOS, and other Apple operating systems.

  • Evolution: While NeXTSTEP was the starting point, macOS has evolved significantly over time, replacing many of the original components with Apple’s own code, such as the XNU kernel. However, the Unix-like foundation and many architectural concepts remain.

NeXTSTEP (Operating System)

  • Developer: NeXT, founded by Steve Jobs.

  • Foundation: Based on the Mach kernel and the UNIX-derived BSD.

  • Key features: Object-oriented and multitasking.

  • Legacy: The technology was acquired by Apple, leading to the creation of Mac OS X (now macOS), and serves as the basis for iOS, iPadOS, watchOS, and tvOS.

The Mach kernel is an operating system kernel developed at Carnegie Mellon University (CMU) that serves as a foundational component in several operating systems, most notably Apple’s XNU kernel used in macOS and iOS, and the GNU Hurd. Originally designed to support distributed and parallel computing, Mach is known for its microkernel architecture, which separates core OS functions like inter-process communication (IPC), memory management, and task/thread management from other components.

Key Characteristics:

  • Microkernel Architecture:

    Mach is a microkernel that provides fundamental services and primitives in the kernel, such as message-based IPC, task and thread management, memory management, and resource management. This contrasts with traditional monolithic kernels, where most services run in the kernel’s address space.

  • Ports and Messages:

    Communication in Mach occurs through ports, which are capabilities that allow tasks to receive messages. These messages are the primary mechanism for threads and tasks to request services from each other.

  • Tasks and Threads:

    A task in Mach is the basic unit of resource allocation, providing a protected virtual address space. Threads are the entities that execute within these tasks.

  • Memory Management:

    Mach’s memory management system is flexible, allowing for external memory managers that handle the actual paging of data to a backing store.

  • Portability:

    Its design separates machine-independent code from machine-dependent code, which speeds up porting to new architectures.

Historical Development and Use:

  • Origin: The Mach project at CMU ran from 1985 to 1994.

  • GNU Hurd: Early versions of the GNU Hurd operating system were developed on top of Mach 3.0.

  • Apple’s XNU: Mach is a major component of the XNU kernel, which powers Apple’s macOS, iOS, and other operating systems. Apple has modified and extended Mach to meet its specific performance and functional requirements.

Mmm… [ except it doesn’t :roll_eyes: ]

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I had NeXTstation turbo color in my collection, it was sluggish as hell and I gave it away for free to some hobbyist along with ANS.

Bit beOs was a system no one anted to buy. They wre a death OS and death Hardware Concept. Possibly not the right choice. Haiku OS is also: an absolute niche with out any chanc to get ion the same position Linux or macOS are. It is a dead end. So for hobbyists it is no problem to spend time. For professional programmers which have to make money with their work: no chance.

I’m assuming by ā€œcollectionā€ you mean you acquired it long after it had relevancy. So, of course, it would seem sluggish by more modern standards. So, more straw-man arguments.

The question is, was it performant for its time? The only way to truly assess it is to compare it to other systems from the same era.

The NeXTstation had excellent technical performance for its time, particularly in software development, but was not a commercial success due to high cost and limited market appeal.

It was known for its advanced NeXTSTEP operating system, which incorporated modern features like protected memory and multitasking, and was considered ahead of its time by users like John Carmack, who developed the graphics engine for DOOM on it. Despite its technical prowess, the company sold fewer than 50,000 units total, leading NeXT to stop manufacturing hardware and focus solely on its software, which was later acquired by Apple.

Performance and technology

  • Advanced OS: The NeXTstation ran the NeXTSTEP operating system, which was considered very advanced for its time, featuring a modern user interface with full-color icons, smooth scrolling, and drag-and-drop functionality.

  • Development environment: It was a powerful machine for software development, and features like ObjectBuilder and ProjectBuilder contributed to its use in industries like finance.

  • Hardware: The machine featured a Motorola 68040 processor and a 17-inch megapixel display, offering high-quality graphics and a compact design.

  • Networking: It had a built-in Ethernet port, making it ideal for use on computer networks.

  • Ā«DOOMĀ» engine: The graphics engine for the popular game DOOM was first created on a NeXTstation.

Commercial performance

  • Limited sales: NeXT sold only about 50,000 computers across all its products, making the NeXTstation a rarity today.

  • High cost: The NeXTstation was expensive, with a base price of $6,500 (about $16,000 in 2024).

  • Market limitations: The high cost and niche market prevented it from becoming a mainstream success.

I had most of the workstations of that era in my collection and it was the only real let down. Compared for an example to a SGI Indigo 2, my choice is clear.

Apple had enough market share to be able to pull it off with a completely new OS using BeOS as a core.

I am not sure why you quoted me, I was speaking about BeOS not having printing engine at the moment Apple had to make decision what to acquire being few months from bankruptcy back then. And I do not need AI to tell me history, I lived it. :grinning_face: Working with Macs since 1988, owning one (Mac IIci) since 1990.

The question is: why should somebody do such terrible thing? The entire point is that the UI and the system in BEOS are not really separated. Makes it complex to build a UI system like apple has it now. And it is not only macOS, it is also iOS/iPadOS which is running this system base. And this flexibility they would not reach with such less effort. Also the platform independency und the portability between x86, Power processor and Apple ARM64 CPU versions is impressive.

You may understand and believe or not: that wasn’t possible with the BEOS and it is still not with Haiku OS. They tried to get into the hobbyist market. That failed completely.

Youir comparison running on hardware of this old days slaggy is also something we could/should discuss.

At the end there is no reason to select this OS for a company like Apple. They have with this structure - at the end one OS for all platforms - much more success than BEOS ever had. And this success is based on the structure they have. The BSD base, the kernel, the NextStep parts of the UI on top. It works, is reliable and extremely flexible.

Sorry, I should have placed your quote after my first paragraph. I was addressing your stipulation that Apple made that decision. They did not, Jobs and his NeXT company did.

Apple was three months to bankruptcy back in 1996, losing about one billion dollars per quarter, already spent ton of money and time developing Copland, they were not in position to buy something that doesn’t have printing. Not to mention that they needed something that could run what we later called Classic MacOS. And I am not sure they could pull it off with BeOS.

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What decision? Not to by BeOS? That decision was made under GIl Amelio. He was the one that decided they should buy NeXT.

There exists software like SheepShaver for BeOS.

Its better and the reasons anyone needs to pop into the Terminal to set something etc are increasingly rare

Its way better