Why go for cross-platform desktop apps in 2023?

Something might be missing on that list, debatable :wink:

Well, not sure I’d put much stock in this article. It lists PhoneGap and Cordova as separate things (they aren’t), and moreover, they are (er, it is) mobile, not desktop. Flutter is arguably mobile first and pretty limited on the desktop at this point. The discussion about React Native also highlights mobile app development. And node.js for cross-platform desktop app development? I think your UI is constrained to a real browser, right?

Other than Xamarin and Flutter, all of these are web-on-desktop (well, when they are on the desktop and not mobile) technologies. This is fine for a lot of typical business applications, but if you need more raw compute or graphics performance (e.g. for creative, engineering and scientific applications, or even games), these web technology-based frameworks still come up short due to the massive runtime overhead of the browser and interconnect layers between the application logic and UI.

So, more notable that essentially no actual cross platform desktop app development frameworks are discussed… where’s MAUI, QT, GTK, let alone Xojo?

Better lists here and here, for reference.

That wasn’t my point ;-). click bait article and poor quality for many reasons. One of thousands, but Xojo almost always missing.

Like it is on the list of your second link, and on the first one newbies can learn " Xojo is among the top 150 most popular programming languages as published by TIOBE". That doesn’t sound too attractive either for any beginner.

You could have mentioned this in the original post. :grimacing:

I was interested if someone smarter than me will post any article showing that people should use Xojo for cross-platform development. I don’t find anything relevant in the popular sources, actually I don’t find any recommendations at all, if you omit the name “Xojo” in your search.

Because even TIOBE says, about “the next 50”

The TIOBE Programming Community index is an indicator of the popularity of programming languages. The index is updated once a month. The ratings are based on the number of skilled engineers world-wide, courses and third party vendors. Popular search engines such as Google, Bing, Yahoo!, Wikipedia, Amazon, YouTube and Baidu are used to calculate the ratings.
The following list of languages denotes #51 to #100. Since the differences are relatively small, the programming languages are only listed (in alphabetical order).

This suggests that < .7% of all items they indexed cover “the next 50”
Thats a vanishing small percentage

Other indexes dont even mention Xojo

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I only know one company that finds TIOBE useful :wink:

They are fun to check out just for interests sake

Whether you can find work is probably a better measure than anything

Some of those others do a better job of indicating that

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true, but if a language is not listed at all, it will most likely not be found by anyone.

Whether you can find work is probably a better measure than anything

RIP Xojo

Slightly clickbaity, but not a bad list, and includes Xojo: 36 Best cross-platform GUI toolkits as of 2023 - Slant. The comments are… unsurprising.

To be mentioned on Tobe is not saying or trying to implement that the language I massively in use. Look for the first five in all indexes. There you will find always: Python (widely used Scripting Language and massively used as scripting language and not as a programming language, it is not even made as), C, C++, Java and that are the most used programming languages. And there is NO XOJO in that Lists except Xojo. and Sorry, it is not listed like a Language with Millions of users, it is listed as it is what it is: a small niche language with really low amount of users. Nobody of the big industry companies would ever even consider using Xojo. I believe that preaching that to SAP would result in a big laugh and everybody would believe it is a Joke.

also for commercial Software Development Xojo is an impossible Solution: you don’t know if your Sourcecode is working in the next version or if you have to do a complete Rewrite. Many users competed in finding new Workarounds for old and new problems when changes to api III. Changing from Java 11 to Java 17 was in nearly all cases. changing the JDK and the SDK in the Project Settings, new Compilation, runs. and in most cases also for Java 8 to java 17. That is industrial Standard for reliability and Code consistency. That is the Thing who makes Xojo out of all Lists. Not even the Language is the problem, even VB you’ll find in use. Xojo has lost that entire War.
And beside that: I often have to write Apps for IOS, MacOs, Android, Windows, Linux and the Web. I prefer to have a GUI for Web, one for Mobile and one for Desktop. And that runs. Even if I want to and need to do that: with Xojo I am not faster at all. Therefore I can say: Desktop Apps are still needed in many Cases.

That wasn’t my question. Basically I didn’t have a question, I just shared the statement that the green company was missing from the article. Even Java was mentioned.

My point is much simpler: I noticed that in this article about the purpose of desktop applications from December 2022 with a view to 2023 (so exactly what potential customers who do not know Xojo will probably be looking for in 2023 ), the wonderful green software does not appear.

I then deleted all cookies in a browser and searched for the question of developing desktop apps. If you don’t mention Xojo there (which should be the case for all newbies and beginners) you won’t find anything. At most, you will find Xojo in lists like TIOBE, and that the language should be among the 150 best-known :-). This shouldn’t convince a beginner either, even if he doesn’t know the price of Xojo by then.

I vow to get better. In the future I will make my postings less cynical, more precise and verbose. But wait a minute! What future? Let’s hope INN will outlast Xojo’s half-life :slight_smile:

Actually, the “Next 50” are 6.2%

0.0012% for each one of them divided equally but with xojo going in and out, it should be on the edge with a much lower percentage than that.

And what is funnier is that since the percentage is for web precense, Xojo being in the list is mostrly because of INN

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I even was with that side sentence not answering to a question but analyzing the discussion a bit behind the scenes. Sorry that it was off topic but I see the discussion at the wrong side: with Xojo cross platform is a mess, with other solutions not. That I mentioned java, yes, sorry, that I have done cause it is the language I use for all targets even windows services. But never mind, one thing I want to add : do not stop your deep cynic postings. I at least appreciate that cynism.

A scripting language is just a type of programming language. There are many complex web apps written using Django for example.

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So, to back-of-the-envelope the age-old question, “How many Xojo developers are there?,” if we estimate the total worldwide developer population to be about 27M (here, here), and the evenly-weighted next 50 (6.2%) are 0.124% (check your percentage vs decimal), then the approximate number of Xojo developers is 33,480. Or, to your point, this is probably an upper bound.

We spoke about desktop :desktop_computer:

wxPython or Kivy

Chewing an old cow. Python is the wrong solution for Desktop. Not everything you can do is the best way you should do. Python Desktop is not. Bit like always on this platform: we will find people which telling: waaahhh beset. Nope. Python is changing its Api faster than most people changing their underwear. And that makes problems with the code reliability. Both, WX Python and Ivy doing the same? Did I mentioned the need of reliability?

And please don’t try to tell the ferry tale Python is faster than Java. No, it is not. It is also with WXPython or Ivy not as stable as Java. And it is: still a Script Language. And please don’t try to come up with yeah you can compile it. The result of Compilation is not as performant as it is needed gor the most applications at least the ones I’m writing.

Python is definitely not a Desktop Language and it is also not that widely used, not wx not ivy. I am sad that I get always that kinky arguments served as the new truths. It is not becoming the best Desktop environment while you present it. oYou can do Desktop with it but it is not made for complex Desktops.

Not while you can do the people will do. Look on the sponsoring for it and you’ll get: far away from the professional world. Not bad but nothing I would rely on to have an application I could possibly not maintain after half of a year without rewriting. Languages which are made for this are able to maintain the needed API’s for long term and not for weeks. With Jan granted for a decade. And how you want to write your Application as a Business Application where you rely on for years? Man.

I had not heard that claim but it would indeed be a fairy tale.

Python has fundamental performance constraints, ranging from the Global Interpreter Lock to its default lack of typing such that even a compiled runtime has to check the data type on every access.

Yes you can annotate types and some compilers / runtimes can speed up around that and yes, as with Xojo you can do a half-baked sort of threading but apart from the just-released (and not 100% compatible) new native code compiler for Python, I don’t think you’re going to match the performance of .NET 7+ or Java or frankly most anything else. And then you’d still lack much of the flexibility and tooling of other languages, I’d think.

Where Python shines is as the glue for various libraries written in C (NumPy, etc), or, as they say, as a scripting language.

I’ve been attracted to the Python language for years but could never get past these constraints.