Well since Xojo Inc. leadership is too cowardly to allow this, I will post it here

People searching for Xojo will still see it here anyhow,

This was in response to the back-patting thread on Back Pats - General - Xojo Programming Forum

I can only speak for myself, but it is not the engineering team, their work, the concept of the software, the amount of their work or even the roadmap for its future that is at issue. I am certain they are all talented and dedicated engineers with an outstanding dedication to their craft and to their mission.

Yes, they deserve recognition to be sure and to be told directly that we all appreciate their efforts. I do.

The problem is the company’s continued focusing on bringing new features to forefront without them being anywhere near completion, and the refusal to address long standing and persistent quality control issues. (yes, I know, there is absolutely nothing wrong with Xojo Inc., please save the rebuttals.)

I suspect that the ability of the engineering team to choose to focus their resources on what is needed to make the product work as advertised is far outside their locus of control, its not their choice to make, that’s leadership’s prerogative. This is and will never be their decision to make, and therefore is not in any way their fault, nor reflecting poorly on them. For and on the record: We love them, we thank them and many of us still love this product and want desperately to see it turn around.

I can already predict what rebuttals will be offered to this post, demands for what problems directly affect me, ad hominem fallacy attacks, demands for my most recent reports etc, and eventually, post removed or thread closed. It’s all so tiresome, so please save your energy; I will not engage in a week long contest of circular logic all over again.

We have not upgraded our licence since 2017 because there has been nothing added to the product that would warrant the licence fee since then. The features that have been brought since then are of alpha or pre-release quality and that is being generous.

Almost nobody I have spoken with (I’m sure there are MVP exceptions to be found) is highly optimistic about the product’s long term future as long as development resources are pressed into new features rather than an extensive and effective performance and quality control pass. If Xojo Inc. continues to value customer money, then it needs to make the product work properly and efficiently, simple as that.

The company needs to halt (temporarily) all new feature development and spend the next 12 months fixing what is in hand and being offered to the customer for sale. COVID-19 has given Xojo Inc. an almost 2 year grace period to get things fixed. Most customers would have excepted reduced releases (possibly even one or none), no new features and even licence fee changes in light of a global situation and reduced business activity. What did we get during this unprecedented opportunity for introspection and housecleaning? Nothing worth paying the licence fee to obtain, from our perspective.

Web 2 is not in any way serviceable in a commercial production environment, and SpaceX will have commercial lunar service before Android is ever delivered in a production viable state. Why does this unsustainable situation continue? Leadership must know that eventually every customer and prospect will come to understand that the ship is being sailed full throttle with open holes in the hull and no effort at damage control is even considered.

Every new half-baked feature is a slap (and perhaps a phlegm-rich juicy spit) in the face of customers who have chosen to entrust at least a part of their business’s future into this companies hands. Only to be ignored, swept under the rug and censored for bringing this to account. It’s abhorrent, and inexcusable. That’s why customers are pissed, it’s not the engineering team, its leadership running the entire operation off of a cliff, unwilling to concede that major mistakes have been made, changes are needed and that perhaps they are a little over their heads situationally (everybody with serious responsibility has been here at some point). Its no shame to admit this, in fact its a hallmark of integrity and an indicator of corporate/leadership longevity.

Eventually Xojo Inc. will acknowledge that it’s customers value reliability, quality and performance much more then shiny new bullet points added to the release notes and marketing checklist. If they can come to this realization before its’ too late remains to be seen. I would love nothing more than to see it rise from the downward trajectory it is in, it is possible, there are many historical examples.

I would go much further and recognize and congratulate many on this team for knowing the true and internal state of the situation,and its trajectory, and yet choosing to remain at their posts. That is the truly commendable and courageous act. Thank you.

Carry on.


I have to say I agree with a majority of what was said here… My biggest disagreement is while the Engineers are given marching orders and must follow them (ie. the BLAME goes entirely to Geoff), I don’t feel that any of them have expressed a reaction that doesn’t make them too seem like cowards (perception over reality perhaps).

The MVP program has done nothing but make this worse. as the intent of that program was to provide a focused voice to liason between the overall community and the team at Xojo. Instead it has devolved into a number of power hungry Forum Police who help insure that the conversations on TOF are inline with the prescribed doctrine …


They are not cowards, just people that want to keep their jobs. If they say something or refuse some order, the CEO will just get another one that keep the current path.

It is really SAD to see that :neutral_face:

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I would tend to agree that most issues are “managerial” in nature

That bug reports languish in feedback for so long is a process (managerial) issue
Feedback collects bug reports just fine but how they are handled is what lets them sit unreviewed and unfixed

That releases go out in the state they do is process (managerial)
New features & changes are made that seem untested in the real world or in applications that Xojo is using that they RELY on. (ie/ if Feedback were a web app then web 2 would be better tested)
The IDE doesnt use web, console or iOS so those changes wont be well tested internally without something important that uses them. Changes to desktop are generally noticed because the IDE uses the desktop framework.

An inadequate number of engineers could certainly contribute to these process issues - but once again thats a managerial issue.


Try to manage development for iOS, web, android, desktop, windows, Linux and Mac with 5 engineers. They are not coward. They try to hide the point that they are not able to fulfill the stuffs they promise. Xojo releases are released in beta stadium at all. No release is at the end really out of it. No pro will use xojo for big projects and if he will run away. Under this circumstances you’ll need to have citizen developers to sell your product. To be successful in that market you MUST have a clean environment and you have to have a professional shining of a big reliable company. That’s what xojo is doing to exist with a low performance product in a high price segment. They need to find year for year new people to buy it cause the pros are running faster as the advertising works.

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Try to manage development for iOS, web, android, desktop, windows, Linux and Mac with 5 engineers. They are not coward. They try to hide the point that they are not able to fulfill the stuffs they promise.

Then dont inflate your abilities and offerings, dont over-hype your marketing, dont let your product that you do have in hand and working well, turn into complete shit for the sake of being stubborn, chasing new prospects, managerial incompetence or worse.

You know, integrity, honesty, customer service and delivering the goods as they were advertised are not exceptional or super human qualities, their are the minimum standard one is expected to maintain in a commercial environment, certainly in a business to business one. People built business and their livelihoods on this now unstable house of cards. Now all that investment of time, energy, code foundation, familiarity, expertise and capability will have to be dumped. You will have to completely flush it all and start ground up with something else.

This more than anything is infuriating, because its not due to an accidental death of a team lead or some act of God or your own business failing, its entirely because of somebody else chose greed, hubris, incompetence, pig-headedness and the now chronic taking of shortcuts over doing whats right.

If you dont know, this situation was not always the case, RealBasic was actually good, delivered the promise and was a real asset.

We are not asking them to orbit a maned station over mars or to cure cancer next year. A working base product is and was well within their reach and their abilities, and they have had more than enough warning and time to start fixing things. They simply choose to spit into your face and offer up some more rancid meat when you purchased a proper meal. They could at any point stopped and made the product work (they still could right now), if they needed more developers, then hire them, need more money, ask the userbase or raise fees, take on investors, partners, crowd source, open source some parts; whatever is needed to win and deliver, thats leadership.

No he chooses not to because shoveling more useless shit onto the customers plate is less work then actually taking on the mission of planning and delivering a good meal, and pretending to be a tech CEO is more fun and easy than actually holding yourself, your team and you product to the accountability of the customer’s needs and the demands of dedicated hard effort.

At some point a value switched in the head and it became easier to get high on your own bullshit, cheat, cut corners and lie to customers then to actually work and deliver as advertised. The customers are just as much at fault for this because we have been compliant pay-pigs who kept chasing the next cup of cool-aid that was promised “when its ready”

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As you can see you need another base for production. Xojo isn’t more than a toy. It is not a professional programming language. Seems like you need to choose what you want. B4x or java or even c++ . But not xojo if you need to develop software and get the job done

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