Thoughts on this web page

anic297 · 24 July 2023 17:20

Does “Low-code” talked here refers to low-level programming (like assembler)?

Tim · 24 July 2023 17:21

I took it to mean “low (small) amount of writing code”

bkeeney · 24 July 2023 19:41

No. here’s a definition I found on the web:

Low-code is an application development method that elevates coding from textual to visual.

Rather than a technical coding environment, low-code operates in a model-driven, drag-and-drop interface. All development skill levels — professional developers, novice developers, subject matter experts, business stakeholders, and decision makers — can use low-code to build value-driven enterprise business applications.

So I think you could say that parts of Xojo are low-code. Other parts not so much.

anic297 · 24 July 2023 20:26

Thanks for your answers. The discussions related to this were hard to follow without knowing the meaning.

“Low-code” is what I’d have called “visual editor” until now. As a non-professional programmer (and not English native either), it’s possible the terms I use are not accurate.

thorstenstueker · 24 July 2023 20:37

Assembler is not low code, it is directly written machine code, let’s say the most impressive level of programming and the (in my eyes, there may be people which are in love with writing assembler so I don’t want to start a flame war) most complex one which is hardest to learn especially while you would need for every architecture it’s own assembler Code.

Adding to bkeeneys answer I would say that some parts of the xojo language are everything but not low code. Xojo is a programming language far away from a low code engine. It has a broad flexibility and many features. Not comparable with low code solutions. So from my point of view it is not a low code solution but a full stack programming language for many platforms with many features und a broad affordable knowledge about the platforms you are programming compiling for to get the best results.

samRowlands · 25 July 2023 00:33

Compared to nowadays Swift, Xojo is not low code IMHO. If fact, I would say it is the opposite, unless you’re fine with only the controls and functionality that Xojo has decreed you can use.

So far I’ve seen a lot of situations where Swift structure uses a lot less code to do things, and of course to access the platform toolbox, that’s all built-in. If you want to add a checkbox to a msgbox, you don’t need to re-implement the entire NSAlert in declares, because Xojo won’t expose the handle to the NSAlert class.

Fritz-DeKatt · 25 July 2023 02:55

samRowlands:

Fritz-DeKatt:

Excellently executed on every level, I’d say.

Thank you.

Fritz-DeKatt:

Personal peeve (on every software product): The subscription model. Even though you make it clear that the product will still work after a year,

I’m not particularly keen on that model either, but need to adapt or die. In reality the Mac software industry has tanked massively under Cook’s guidance. 50% of Mac users won’t download apps from outside the Mac App Store. To make it worse, is you need to use outside promotion to drive traffic to the App Store, and that’s if they’ll let your in. Neither App Wrapper or Sleep Aid are permitted in the App Store because they both require functionality that Apple prohibit. Not to mention that people expect App Store apps to be dirt cheap, and Apple push for actual subscriptions.

Yeah. I don’t know that Apple has ever been that supportive of its developers. Back in its boutique days as the graphics professional’s platform of choice you had to be Adobe or Aldus to be worthy of Apple’s notice. Now that it owns an ecosystem it can be even more dismissive.

I can’t prove this, but I bet the biggest part of the 50% you mentioned are younger users.

Fritz-DeKatt:

It sounds like a very comprehensive, but necessarily narrow, product. For relatively little effort,(compared to what you put into it so far) you could throw in other system diagnostics like the usual CPU utilization, memory, hard drive space remaining, network connections, etc.

Simply focusing on improving Mac sleep, still has a long way to go. The process is undocumented, and TBH I’m considering re-writing my whole tracker as I can see flaws in my current design.

As for competing with other apps that do entire system management, there’s a couple of problems I have with that direction. The least is that I worked with a couple of developers who build apps to do this, to help refine some of the stuff in Sleep Aid. So I feel if I now compete with them, it feels wrong. However I do appreciate the suggestion to open it up to a wider audience.

I respect that you’d want to keep faith with your friends. That’s never a bad decision in the long run.

Fritz-DeKatt:

The Mac market for system utilities is different than on Windows (where there is much more of a perceived need because it behaves so inconsistently.

Funny you should say this as Microsoft have a sleep diagnosis tool already, yeah, it’s just not well known at all. Apple on the other hand, keep the whole process a black box.

Windows needs more tools like this (or it is perceived they do) because Windows power management in general is such a kludgy can of worms. Even with my 2020 HP Spectre x360, a supposedly premium device, ‘instant on’ is a bad joke and sudden death at 25% power is routine. And advertised battery life is so far from actual experience that you wonder how they can keep a straight face.

Fritz-DeKatt:

Good luck with this. It looks like a great app and your site is beautiful, the endless scroll aside (which, as has already been pointed out, is the convention these days).

Thank you.
I might consider options for breaking it into multiple pages, but we’ll see. I am hoping to make it public this coming week.

Fritz-DeKatt:

Imagine having a team of engineers who can easily fill a small room and just having to deal with the IOS changes for one year. That’s a career by itself.

That is part of the problem, they’ve pretty much ignored the macOS changes for the last decade (in some aspects two decades), iOS, Windows changes as well. It’s frustrating because it feels like they didn’t even try to keep up. There are so many things in their Mac framework which don’t work correctly anymore, the longer they leave it, the more it becomes useless.

Like 4D, Omnis, Filemaker and Panorama, the management at Xojo probably understands that you don’t have to be cutting edge to be a development tool on the Mac. You just have to be a development tool on the Mac. Like Robert Heinlein used to say, the great thing about a dancing bear is not how well it dances, but that it dances at all.

I wish you luck. The only way I ever made money on the Mac is in consulting and in-house development. You don’t get the benefits of the retail model, but you can make a comfortable living.

samRowlands · 25 July 2023 03:41

Thank you. I was actually doing alright, until I wasn’t.
Currently I’m earning 80% of 20 years ago, and 20% of 10 years ago.
So when Xojo decided to shaft me as well… I felt even more shit.

It is pretty simple dynamics really, the number of potential customers I can reach has been severally reduced, there’s not much I can do about that, except spend on advertising and reviews. The only Mac YouTuber that responded to me, wanted $20,000 USD for a 60-second review of Sleep Aid. While all t’others never responded and never reviewed the app. I am considering a trip to Computex next year (as entry is FREE for me), just so I might be able to get a few moments to talk to someone from LTT Media and see if they’d do a review.

Even some entrenched Mac media wanted considerable money to write a review of Sleep Aid.

Thankfully; My wife is better with money than I, and squirreled a lot of our earnings into investments, which compliments the poor returns that we see today. Otherwise, there is no doubt in my mind, that I’d give up making Mac apps, and maybe making apps overall.

npalardy · 25 July 2023 05:08

OMG ! I’m in the wrong line of work

samRowlands · 25 July 2023 05:38

I know right!

Jeannot · 25 July 2023 06:18

Could be a bargain if he will bring you 2.000k USD revenue

samRowlands · 25 July 2023 07:03

Thanks all for your feedback on the page. I launched it today.

bgrommes · 26 July 2023 00:10

It certainly ruins the credibility of such reviews for me, if there’s that much “greasing of palms” going on.

npalardy · 26 July 2023 02:15

Cant say I have faith in “reviews” in quite som time
Certainly not ones on social media as so much is done btw “influencers” (aka shills) and basically bought & paid for

Jeannot · 26 July 2023 08:29

and it is one aspect which most likely won’t improve with AI …