I can’t find my issues report, and can’t find the discussion on the Xojo forum.
Here is a discussion with animated gifs to show the problem in the Ifnotnil website
Some of these discussion were on the Xojo website with Michel Bujardet (May he rest in Peace), and Julian Samphire (no longer a member of the Xojo forum).
I did create the plugins due to the many issues with Xojo canvas and OpenGL on Xojo Windows, not on other programming languages with Windows.
Here is one of the many discussions on the Xojo forum with Windows and graphics flicker, etc:
It appears Geoff Perlman was also involved in some of these discussions on the Xojo forum:
Here is a Xojo forum with more issues with Xojo Windows flickering:
The summary is Xojo Windows has been poor for graphics with Canvas and OpenGL. Since this was not being addressed by Xojo, I wrote my own plugins to bypass the issues with Xojo GUI to get the graphics performance seen with other programming languages.
I’m not sure how slow Swift is compared to C but an early version of my VM written in swift is an order of magnitude faster than the Xojo implementation.
Like a decade ago I made a Feature request to use a serious back end for the graphics. It would be faster, consistent and with a lot of functionality out of the box like PDF and SVG. A decade later, still a half baked graphics, at least a half baked PDF but No SVG
Proof that xojo IS SLOW, PROOF that it is xojos own fault, and also some hints of how improve…
Now lets see how it ends:
-The usual gaslighting of “Windows is slow, not xojo”
-The recent mediocrity of “Yes it is slow… but it works”
-The make or job sending a proyect o we will close this
…
-Fixing it ???
Are you waiting on them to ask for the sample project? I don’t see one on issue 78155. Looks you worked to find this problem and show how they can improve it, you may add a sample with some code.
You know the drill.
Read and understand. At the moment where I will end up the company the Software becomes open Source and the Customer can search for a programmer to get the needed assistance. I don’t know what is wrong with your ability to understand but that’s the only way and that way works.
And what if nobody picks that up? Then your software will be without support. Period.
And why would you care what happens to your software after you’re dead? I wouldn’t with mine (but mine is all freeware)
It’s quite simple to understand: learning a whole new language and writing a colossal app again in a new programming language is a boring, annoying and time-consuming task that almost nobody wants to do. I did it once in Xojo/Realbasic and it took me half a year to get to the point my old code was. I don’t want to do that again and learn after a couple of years that that new language will be crap by then too.
Xojo still does for me what I want of it. I maintain a large piece of CRM that I first developed in dBase III/FoxPro and in 2004 I rewrote everything in RealBasic/Xojo. Now, twenty years later, the software is still running strong and every now and then I’ll add some functionality with an older version of Xojo, since I did not renew my license.
I also develop small new apps with it for different purposes: a Jukebox label printer with management for your vinyl collection, a music player with synchronising capabilities and an arcade games frontend that runs emulators and games from a nice looking menu. I still like Xojo, although some things could be better, but I’m not ready to learn a new language just for developing a few nice apps. And often people don’t care if an app takes 0,001 or 1 second to do something, that only becomes an issue when it’s taking much, much longer.
The entire Point is that the customers can then do with it what they wand. I know at least three industrial customers which will pick it up cause it is for their production important. Can that change? Yes. Is it a problem? For me not. If nobod needs it anymore, okay. But if the products are still in use the Software needs to be updatable. And the products have to be buildable. Simply that is the reason behind. My company runs at least until I will retire or die. After that point it is not my problem anymore.
Popping back in to answer that question, although it wasn’t addressed to me directly…
My answer: Because over the course of more than 30 years trading, there are in excess of 30K people who have bought my software.
Thousands use it to run their business on a daily basis.
I care about these people.
That is why it is your problem: choosed Xojo / Realbasic. This language is not for long term developers. It is not reliable and code consistent. Java is. Since two decades and as far as I can see now at least for the next decade. That is the cimple part of long time support.
and here is the big security risk. Your Software is outdated and not supported anymore, the security standards changed also for Software like Xojo. Especially the framework has many changes in the meantime in case of application security. Your customers living dangerous. But what shall I say: it is your decision to do that. But you should also know: the day will come where your old System isn’t supported anymore. And then you need to chnge the Xojo version. At that point you may learn that your Idea behind is totally wrong. Cause your code will not run anymore. Congratulations.
Again: your decision to provide your customers old Software. What you do is dangerous. And yes: Speed is not the decision. Long time code consistency is definitely. I have applications which are written in Java AWT (came before Swing). They are still running with Java23. I am refitting this apps with a modern flatlaf Swing interface and that’s it to have them around for the next twoi decades.
And I can be sure that the security is all time up to date. Not like you, providing years old libs delivered with Xojo as brand new Software. That is no security culture.
And that software will continue to run, won’t it? Only the support will stop. That’s always the deal if a company/person that created software stops existing. My Xojo apps will continue to work if Xojo goes under or I die, it’s just the support that stops. No big deal.
sometimes people like you are not getting: the software will not run for ever. Day will come a new version of Windows or MacOS will come and the Software stops running. Starting from that day your IDE will also stop running. An then it is at it’s end for ther application. Sometime speople like you thinking that they are the midpoint of the world. Small hint: you are not. Development of operating Systems and security Systems goes straight forward.
So you have a glass ball and know what language is still around in 10 years? If so, why did you ever use Xojo then? Why not use Java for the last 30 years and stop investing so much time pissing on Xojo?
Bullshit. People using my app to print a label for their jukebox could care less if the software was based on recent technology or not. I’m not writing software for multimillion dollar companies, I’m creating apps for a couple of hundred users with simple tasks. My CRM app is used by a company with 10 people and we did not have any problems in the last 20 years (we run on Mac, that might help too).
Look what you have to do to keep your software running for a couple of years… My CRM software is running on the same codebase that I started in 2004 in Realbasic. Sure, I had to rewrite some routines here and there, but I’m still mostly using old code with a couple of 2.0 code in between. Running perfectly and I can keep using it for another 10 years at least, just as long as my Xojo 2021 keeps working. After that, I’m not working there anymore and they can look for another solution.
I hate the current “security culture” and I think it’s highly overrated. It’s getting way too complicated and you completely depend on others to keep your shit safe. Everything in the cloud, using anti virus software (that screws up your system), updates every five minutes that result in changes in software/user interface people hate. I think you have a whole other opinion on software than most people using Xojo. They are doing that to write small apps, not large corporate apps that are mission critical.
First: I could leave the software on AWT and it would still run. So this I decided while anyhow adding functionality.
Security in your eyes is crap, I got it. God beware us from devs like this. Discussion ends here while developers against security is citizen development. All ok.
And bullshit…be careful. In short time on Mac many things are not running anymore like they have done. World turns not around you, development goes forward
I get the impression that you’re jealous of the people still enjoying Xojo! You’re bashing it every opportunity you get and if there aren’t any, you’ll start your own new topic like this one. There comes a time when you will need to understand: there will always be people enjoying Xojo as long as it remains alive. There will always be people that hate Java. Same for Windows and MacOs. Or Ford and GM, Kindle and Kobo. You can talk all you want, but people will still see the disadvantages of your preferred product and keep using theirs.
Now you’re also pulling the “safety/security” card, like everything that’s built with Xojo a few years old get’s people into trouble within seconds and the people like me developing it are sheer criminals in development land. Quite pathetic. I’m developing on Xojo 2021 R3, so shoot me… I bet you know that ATM machines where running on 30 year old code/operating systems just a couple of years ago? In some countries they still do. Airports in not-so developed countries have machines running on Windows XP. All optician stores over here in The Netherlands are still running software that needs MS-DOS to operate. And there are many, many other examples like that. Not all multi-million dollar companies run on state of the art software and the latest operating systems, you need to open your eyes. People like you blow up the IT budget of companies.
Definitely not. As a programmer which had a customer which choosed Xojo for a mission critical app I know exactly that Xojo is a real bad decision. And as a programmer writing C++ and Java programs I know that they are a good decision. So I have no problems with Xojo programmers writing Software. But people using it and not updating frameworks are working negigent. That would alos be with Java. And yes, theese Apps are also still running. No problem. Even when two decades old.
I can’t see disadvantages you are speaking about coming from Xojo. Please. C++ and also Java are much more functional and having code consistency over decades. So why should I think about using Xojo? It is only in your phantasy that I was using it in a free decision. I was using it cause one customer wanted. Not while I choosed it. And he was paying much for this dump error. Also not my fault.
Not correct, many of them using since a long time Zeiss Woftware based on Windows.
What I know about it in case of Wincore/Noxdorf: since long time not anymore. They ran on Windows NT, switched to XP, now on Windows 10 and changing to Windows 11. Only in your phantasy it is like you say. It is also not so in USA and many other states.
People like you are the danger. And trust me: it is much cheaper to actualize the Software regulary than using twenty years old Software. And in case of operating Systems: loosing your data bacuase of this is more expensive in EU. There are enough EU laws helping with penalties above two times of the company revenue for that. Open YOUR eyes and start realize that we are not in a world like 1001 anymore.
