Take your API 2.0 and shove it where the sun doesn't shine

As I said I have been using it for over 20 years and have a few plugins that fill the gaps I needed, as well as bunch of existing code…

So for me, at this time, it is hard to justify changing even though I am not happy with it overall. Starting from scratch is just not an option.

I really wish they had succeeded better…


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In many ways I agree
I do earn a lot of my living writing code, much of it still in Xojo, I dont like that prospect either.
But, for me its is either I bite the bullet and expand what I can write in to stay relevant & employed or quit writing code entirely and go do something else
Requests for consultants using Xojo have dried to a trickle of what they once were
If you recall it is one reason I believe @bkeeney cited as to why he left that market & took a full time job
Others have departed as well for similar reason that they’ve shared with me privately
Many of those just silently moved on
Perhaps because they didnt have Bob’s profile etc but still they have gone away

Of course my circumstances are different than yours
Your full time job ISNT writing software - thats an adjunct to your role as a Chemist (?)
So the effects of Xojo’s decisions to alter everything and push away so many professionals and their clientele, and thereby really hurt the market for folks like me, isnt quite as damaging to you or possibly as apparent

But from here its basically decimated what used to be an OK market

For very little gain as far as I can see

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We do, but they haven’t.

My title these days is Director of Quality And Analytical Chemistry.

There was time a number of years ago I was hoping I could make some money with Xojo to supplement my social security for a few years when I retired… I no longer think that is a realistic possibility.

My company, even though we are small, is getting more IT savvy and trying to implement IT security standards to make sure we don’t get hacked…

Beside eventually having to go over to Windows (Originally I was told I coudl keep my Mac - but now they now say they can’t support Macs securely on the domain)… and also the VP wants to only have a standard suite of Apps installed, so not having admin permission anymore even on my own machine, I doubt I would be able to even get permission to install any programming language, never mind something as non-mainstream as Xojo… (and I hate to have someone who does not know the work being done judge if an app is “needed” for it!)

What does not help is that I am the only person in-house who does ANY coding … I don’t think anyone else even does sophisticated Excel spreadsheets…

The IT consultant had a bird when he found out I gave a person they converted over to a “secure” PC from a Mac, a Windows version of a Mac app they had been using that I had written for them last year (it really speeded up an aspect of their job) that I created in Xojo.

For now I still have my Mac with Xojo and other coding related apps on it, but likely not for much longer.

  • Karen
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Thats too bad
Again, how Xojo’s decisions have affected you and I is somewhat different - but it still impacts both of us

Typical IT mentality
Once they put the handcuffs on, and things slow down because no one can do anything to make their job more efficient, they’ll get that there is a need for some wiggle room
I used to be one of those IT guys
And basically went through the whole “lock everything down” only to find that it actually hurt more departments than it helped and really, the lock down only helped IT have to do less :slight_smile:

Sad for you

Yup. At one point we had 3 full-time Xojo developers and we kept 2 of 3 busy 100% of the time. In 2019 things dried up and by the end of 2019 it was just me and I wasn’t all that busy. I was extremely lucky in finding a great paying job using Xojo. And then in the last year they’ve retrained all the Xojo developers (10? of us!) into using Go.

Our focus is no longer desktop apps but SaaS apps using Go as the backend and React/Typescript on the frontend. So it’s been quite an adjustment. Go is not an object oriented language though it can appear to be like one at times. I don’t have much experience with React yet but it’s definitely different than anything in the Xojo world.

For a personal project I’m converting one of my long-time Xojo apps using Wails that marries Go and React. Think Electron but with Go. Once I get something I’m happy with I’ll probably do some blog posts. But I have such a long way to go before that. Shoot, I’ve already thrown two versions away and started over.

I still keep an eye on the consultant requests and there’s nothing that comes through that’s even mildly interesting. I think there are many good dev environments with a way bigger community than Xojo that are picking up what used to be Xojo projects. I know two of our former clients that went to bigger dev environments where they could actually find developers - that’s not an easy thing with Xojo.


Never keep the first version :slight_smile:
You learn a ton in that one, and then do it better the second (or third time) :stuck_out_tongue:

I told one client, after decent analysis & discussion with them, that Xojo wasnt the right tool for them.
And they agreed
They tried to find local devs and couldn’t.
So they found devs using their existing toolset locally and have been happy with that.

There dont even seem to be that many any more

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It happens that Xojo’s management boasts about Xojo being IT’s best kept secret. How to rationalise a big strategic mistake…

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IMO that might have been true at one time, esp when a LOT of companies were transitioning from VB6 to “something else”
Now ?

And their highlighted bullet point ?

Not sure I’d call “speed and power” a “low code tools” selling point
Usually its “you dont have to learn to code to make it possible for your line of business experts to write tools to speed up your business processes”

Thats not Xojo
You have to learn to code to be able to DO anything
Want a chart ? need to write code
Want a CRUD UI - write code

They’ve staked out a weird position

We’re more powerful than those tools that dont need you to write code but with us you DO have to write code
We’re easier than C++/Java/Swift/C# but we’re not as robust or fast or …

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The Xojo management/marketing better stop smoking thick carpets.

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@bkeeney said to me recently that he doesn’t think Xojo will be around in 5 to 10 years. I didn’t agree with him at the time. I honestly thought that Xojo could limp along like FileMaker has.

I didn’t expect anyone to like my post about moving to another tool, so I’ve been really surprised with the feedback. Mainly people what to know what I’m moving too and if I think they should do the same.

The absconding is obviously far from over.

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If it does happen I hope there will be a way to be able change computers and still keep compiling…

But as much as I believe Xojo Inc has made some huge mistakes and is still on the wrong track, I hope it does stay around … at least for about another 17 years … (I don’t think I’ll still be coding in my mid 80s :wink: )

  • Karen

Beyond hope, there is conservation of a working status quo. You could put Xojo in a VM and keep it that way.

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…and it merrily goes on. Genius is waxing philosophical and makes delusional and hubristic statements. This company will ultimately go down.


I think this is a solid way forwards as you can keep the VM at that system version for ever, or until Apple change CPU architecture again.


I didn’t quite understand what to expect from Xojo Inc. if there will be major problems with Web1.
However, he didn’t seem hubristic to me.

If you set your expectations from Xojo to ZERO, you will never be disappointed

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Not just me saying this but also former Xojo engineers. They no longer work for Xojo but saw the issues even back when they worked for Geoff. The problems we see are not new.

The difference between FileMaker and Xojo is that FileMaker (nominally at least) has the backing of Apple (one of the richest companies on the planet). Xojo has none of that backing.


Notice that he NEVER says

We’d absolutely make a new build of an old version to help fix whatever issue you might run into

Thats the ONE statement about “Web 1 support” that people would love to hear
But they wont ever do it so you are running on borrowed time on an old version of Xojo & Web 1 projects
CVE’s happen and Linux gets updated
Browsers update
DB’s get updated

And any of those could break your web 1 app

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Exactly. @ivan’s question has been left unanswered. This makes it clear.