Shouldnt need to petition for upvotes for such a bug but

here we go
A pretty darned serious bug in the debugger
And it sits despite being marked reproducible
It makes debugging really tough - I’ve resorted to a pile of debug logs to debug this


EDIT : for my money this kind of SERIOUS bug should just be fixed as a matter of course
And THIS is exactly the kind of triage that Xojo should do to better address the notion that they dont fix bugs


upvote is this ? just reviewing the new bug system
maybe it should be the number of thumbs down

Downvotes are meant to say “I do not want this ticket handled” not “this bug is a shitty one.” Be extremely careful with your downvotes, you will make enemies.

yes that’s why i figured out after a while, but it feels wierd to click a thumbs up for upvote bug report, i think it’s a UI/UX problem, a paradox

If you assume thumbs up means “yeah I agree with this please fix this” and thumbs down means" I disagree and this doesnt need fixing" then I think they make sense

EDIT : and now this BUG is the second most popular one in their new issues system
Right behind a “new feature” request

I’ll tell you which way I’d order these - BUGS FIRST !

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From a user experience standpoint, some places (like StackOverflow) do have a hover effect to help them illustrate to users what the up/downvotes mean. Not that we can really change the way it’s used on gitlab from where we are, but I can understand how it can be difficult to interpret.

Did this one got fixed?

archived :frowning:

there are 4171 archived bugs[]=Archived&label_name[]=Bug&first_page_size=20

That Xojo Bot reminds me of the gunslinger in Westworld.


That things that are reported and marked as BUGS by Xojo then get closed by the bot is mildly infuriating since there really isn’t much we can do about a bug once they say its a bug beyond “yeah still happens”

Basically they just haven’t even bothered to look at it in 2 years so it slides off the radar
Doesnt mean its fixed
Just ignored

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Yes, I think this new ‘Archived’ label is the indication that Xojo wants us to keep reporting every now and then if the bug still exists.

That’s the idea. Xojo can’t fix all the bugs and having them open makes no sense (to them), so if the bug:

  • is old (more than 2 years)
  • no activity for the last 2 years (external or internal)
  • no new upvotes or comments in the last 2 years from other users (I guess the upvotes will trigger activity but not sure)

Then the OP is no longer affected by the bug, is no longer with Xojo, the bug is not that important, found a workaround, is not cost-effective to try to fix that bug (not enough resources or the bug affects other code), no one was able to work with it, or maybe by chance the bug is no longer reproducible.

Remember this is a new ‘label’ and action by the Xojo bot. I think it was introduced this year.

I may search for an open case that is almost 2 years old that affects me, add a thumbs up and see if the Xojo bot closes the case in a few days/weeks. Just to confirm if that action will make the case ‘active’ or not.

Edit: don’t read much into the post, basically what I’m trying to say is that the ‘Archived’ label is what it is.

That process takes a single parameter for making a decision (period of inactivity). All other parameters you cited cannot have been verified during that period. The very definition of ‘no activity’, as stated by the bot, forbids that. I have posted about this process on Xojo’s forum and Xojo team did not chime in for a fact-based discussion. This unfortunately limits us to making guesses about the why.

A confirmed bug is a task to be worked on. A confirmed bug chiefly means ‘does not work as advertised’. Either it is corrected or the documentation receives additional information for users about the bug, proposed workarounds or that no workaround exist. It cannot just be a wipe-it-from-the-backlog that is founded on wishful thinking (has gone away, no one cares anymore). Haven’t seen anything like this before.

Since they decided that the forums are a user to user support forum they more or less dont participate much at all

And so users of all stripes are left guessing about all kinds of things

For instance

One comment from staff oh the docs are wrong use Add not Addrow might have steered this guy in the right direction & got the docs updated

This sort of thing is all to frequent now

10000% - a bug is a bug is a bug and once confirmed by staff that it is a bug it doesnt magically “not affect anyone” because its old
It may get fixed by some other work
But that should be confirmed by staff testing to see if thats the case

Xojo has long outsourced a lot of their QA to their users - with more or less expected results

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I agree with you that a bug is a bug. In an ideal world, Xojo would have:

  • staff to be present on the forum without making the developers spend hours a week there, if they found something on the forum that is obvious for a bug/docs fix, fix the docs or create a bug report (mention the forum post and ping the forum author if more information is needed and for reference)
  • staff to review old cases, and test them to see if they are still present, no auto-archive bugs
  • staff for beta testing and quality control

On the blog post where they announced the auto-archive “feature” they said:

Sometimes cases stagnate with little progress… These cases impede all of our efforts to search Feedback… If you find an Archived case that is still important to you, please request that we reopen it.

that is the ‘why’ they auto-archive/close cases. I guess is easier now to see the Open Issues when all 4k+ Archived are now in Closed. But hey, they give an option for us to request an Archived case to be reopened.

Edit: is it really that different to have 6k+ open cases than 10k+, if a bug bash month can only fix 100?

Edit2: well it makes a difference because only 2k+ open cases have the label Bug instead of 6k+, that way is possible to say that only 1/3 of issues are open bugs instead of 2/3.

It would need 5 years of bug bashing to fix all but only if they are faster than the amount grows. As far as I can see that isn’t possible cause they need to write also new functionality. So we are at 50 % bug bash maximum. 10 years. But with new functionality coming new bugs. With a so small team it’s impossible. So you only can fix showstopper bugs. Not more.

A quality manager would ask ‘why do cases of verified and reproducible bugs stagnate for such a long time?’ The answer to this question is key to progress. If the answer is ‘nobody ever worked on these cases’, the solution is…

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41 items marked reproducible & archived seems just wrong

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It all goes back to them expecting us to be the primary QA testers,

But If I run into bug, while I would report it, I would then either find a work around for redesign the code or UI not to need to do that or find a different way to do that because I need to get done what I’m working on…

Once I have, knowing that the bug may take years to get fixed if it every does, I use the work round and I’m not likely to go back and recheck if the bug still exists with every new version…

That is not to say the bug is not serious… in some cases it is… but there are many ways to skin a cat… BUT having to finding them is very frustrating and time consuming, and some users won’t find a way… either way it leaves the user with a bad taste…

There is not much incentive for me to go back and refresh a bug once I either redesigned or found a work around, as I’m busy with other things… I did my part by reporting it.

The company however should care that such things frustrates customers and hurts the products reputation. Yes of course zero bugs is unattainable and unrealistic, but a company truly concerned about quality would do better than this.

I think the obviously low priority Xojo inc gives to quality is a significant part of why Xojo’s niche is as small as it is.



There is the ‘Pro Plus’ license that offers faster bug fixes. Does it make a difference compared to a ‘Pro’ license?

Yeah. You pay more but not getting bugs fixed as far as people which had pro plus are correct.