Realistically, what could Xojo do to make you stay?

Most yes

The deal breaker for me was the price increase. I get it, sometimes you need to raise your prices but I thought it was a bit excessive. That being said, if they added version control support to the lite edition I would consider it. I can live without the desktop edition but not version control.

Phil

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Same here for me. I don’t need web, Android, or iOS. With the “improvements” on desktop requiring a huge rewrite of a 20-year-old codebase if I want to get bug fixes going forward (assuming they only fix bugs in the “new” controls and API2), I won’t renew until or unless I feel I’m getting something worth investing my money and significant amounts of time to realize a benefit from. The last couple of years felt like I was not getting my money’s worth by doing a regular renewal (even at the 20% off Black Friday sale price); what I’ve seen since the price increase hasn’t changed my mind one bit about upgrading.

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Well that’s enough to put me off Xojo Web. I think desktop is a dwindling market and we seem to have been waiting on Android support since Jesus was a lad.

I think the only thing Xojo does reasonably well, i.e. desktop, is just not so relevant anymore.

??? this doesn’t make any sense
relevant for what use cases ?

Good JOKE!!! With the WEB2 not even half baked and Web1 users already looking for options… Better than ever :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Another thing they can do is to STOP BREAKING things each release. Sure, a few improvements and a LOT of new bugs and things not working anymore. :roll_eyes:

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the problem is this endless misunderstanding:
i barely use web

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Well, how are your Xojo for iOS experiences then … better than ever? Competitive? :roll_eyes:

Simple.

It used to be that with REALbasic you ended up with a stable platform before they started work on the next big version.

With the Rapid Release Model it has become a permanent beta, and especially with new features alpha quality product - and I’m sick of THAT.

I need stability and reliability - and not bugs that give you one result on Macs and another on Windows.

Xojo needs to concentrate on their CORE competencies (eg the Framework, the IDE, etc - because they are the only one who can do that), and work with the plug-in developers to provide new features (because they are miles better at it than Xojo).

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I’m also annoyed by this. It would be better if Xojo had these files stored in a fixed location (like “Application support”).
The way it is currently is halfway to the “storing mutable files right in the bundle” behaviour, which is not recommended.

Also annoyed by this, but I’m not sure they can do better (otherwise, why would they invalidate the cache made by prior versions and not just use it?)

Can be. I usually remove previous versions when one becomes available. In an external drive, I archive the previous versions.

Desktop applications are being replaced with SaaS
For several years now the only desktop software I’ve really installed and used is Firefox and Geany

I’m not alone in that, just go to any job recruitment site and see how many jobs there are for web or mobile developers vs desktop.

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For me, it would be more ‘what could Xojo do to make me come back?’

  1. Bug fixes obviously. Bug bash this month was very far from enough to turn the tide. it was barely a ripple. Test, test and test again before release. The beta group approach has proven not to be enough to stop the avalanche of new bugs with each release.

  2. Cut back on platforms. I know, this is a tough one to sell, but they just don’t have the in-house resources (with real life experience?) to handle so many platforms. They should cut their losses and get rid of the mobile gimmicks. Or alternatively, double or triple the number of engineers with young talent and ideas (which will be hard without some investor).
    I truly miss the days they were really good at Desktop cross-platform. If only they’ve spend all the time they’ve lost on the Mobile platforms on Web instead, it may have been on par with Desktop today. The full bet should’ve always been on Web, but this is probably to late now, as there are plenty of alternatives available. How nice would it have been if we had something like https://bootstrapstudio.io/ today but we could use Xojo code for the business logic (both possible to be transpiled to the server AND client side)…

  3. Start using more proven technologies to keep up with the needs of today. They seem to be always behind everyone in their implementations (maybe Mac excluded because they are forced to). Modern Windows UI, build-in Web HTTP/2, WebSocket and PWA support to name a few that should be already available. The Bootstrap move was promising, however then again they missed the whole responsiveness boat provided by it, out of the box.

  4. And non-technical: make a promise AND make sure you can keep it before you do! It is no surprise that all these (false) hopes that have been build-up by Xojo Inc over the years has created at least some bitterness in the community, especially when people rely on them for their own living.

But as none of them will likely happen in my (or Xojo’s) lifetime, chances of returning are very slim for me.

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While I can’t help you with Plugins, there’s now a global place for Scripts and Templates under your Documents folder. Make the following directory:

USERHOME/Documents/Xojo/IDE/

and then create Scripts and Project Templates folders in there.

I don’t remember when it was added, but it certainly was in the last 5 years or so.

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Can this be found in the documentation?

Sometimes it’s just time to move on from a tool. I brought into the dream Xojo was selling but in the end lack of delivery (not delivering on promises or quality) and a price rise mixed in meant it was time to move on. Xojos offering and my needs no longer match.

The thing that could mean I used Xojo again would be them being realistic on what they were going to deliver with a timescale and it actually working based on customer requirements.

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In my perception, the main problem is that there has been too little focus on quality and bug fixes in recent years. But if they only wanted to, they could eliminate this point of criticism within a year and silence virtually all negative comments. I see the „Bug Bash Month„ as a first positive sign that there might be a rethinking in the right direction. They should be credited for this, as it is what many current and former users want. So: If they continue to improve the product in this sense, I could well imagine renewing my license.

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I would await a bit more:

  • fixing the big pile of Bugs
  • fixing the IDE which is not even near to IDE’s like Netbeans, Eclipse or IntelliJIdea for C++, Java, C
  • fixing the Framework problems
  • getting ready with Android
  • getting ready with a 50/50 Release System (Feature-Release, Bugfix Release in a 6 month rhythm
  • testing Software better before release (no, Testers is not really enough for it)
  • fixing the compiler Issues like Optimization which does not really work
  • fixing the Database connectivity which ist blazing slow
  • developing better interfaces for Plugins so they can be better integrated
  • hiring a bigger team for Development, Testing and Supporting
  • becoming honorable in their statements (we will Support Xojo Web 1.0 for Showstoppers)
  • holding the promises
  • fixing the compiler Issues which are making the results much slower then C#, C++, C, Java
  • presenting an Emergency plan what happens if the company dies while then there will not be any license server working anymore (Investment protection)

That would be the constructive points which I would say are needed. I have no need for more Features in first line I see the need for Bug Fixing. But I realize that the Testing is not what industry standards are. There they have to do much more. And also the Bugfixing needs more Hands. Otherwise there is no possibility to handle all the Stuff.

The entire Point is that they lost the contact to the needs. Not to the customers but to the possibility of needs. And that would be - for me and I guess and believe many others - the major argument why moved away.

That part does concern me and has since they instituted that.

I have seen companies I never expected to go out of business that did.

-Karen

Exactly that is the problem with it. What is it helping for when there is no licensing anymore. Even B4J/I/A means Esel has plannings for that Moment and is even setting big parts open source.

I would imagine if that were to happen, Xojo would open source as much as possible. If not… there are… options.

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