Moving to greener sources of energy

you are climate denier.

quote=“eugenedakin, post:1, topic:3504”]
This sure seems to be a government tax grab,
typical american paranoia speech

no you don’t, because nobody in your country is talking about it

says it all.
you repeat all the arguments your emloyer gives.

you report trolling on social media to big brother ?

Methinks the lady doth protest too much.

You remind me of the folks in the US who ask questions like, “was slavery REALLY all bad?” and “did the moon landing really happen?” and then follow up with, “I am just asking questions”, as if people’s incredulity and irritation at the questions is all their problem.

I’ll be charitable: you’ve been immersed in the fossil fuel industry bubble for a very long time and are having trouble with narratives running counter to it.


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science is not an opinion

waou incredible manipulation.

you really think that humans will cut trees to replace them with solar panels ?


Humans do self destructive things all the time
And usually only stop doing it once the realize the catastrophe is imminent - sometimes not even then
So yes I can believe that humans would do dumb things like this left unchecked
Thats where “responsible government” comes into play (not Bolsanaro for instance)

However, the thing that IS different about cutting down trees & burning them is that the CO2 released is part of the “fast” carbon cycle
Those trees grew up in the last bunch of years (maybe the last few hundred)
Unlike oil, gas and coal which has been sequestered for millions of years and hasn’t been part of the earths carbon cycle for millions of years
And is now, in the last hundred + years, being released in the billions of tons annually

THATS the problem
The rate of change is on a time scale virtually no evolutionary adaptation occurs
Species dont evolve that quickly so they just die out since they cant adapt quickly enough or relocate quickly enough
Enough die out and it JUST might have serious effects on us

And it does seem to be having serious consequences in terms of the earths climate
And that is causing billions in damages from increased intensity of events
There is a report I need to find that showed the frequency of “billion dollar events” (adjusted for inflation for older events) that showed the frequency of very costly events is also on the increase
8 of the most costly disasters are from hurricanes in the last 30 years (The Japanese tsunami and the Northridge quake are the other two)
And the effects are whats been seen in Florida where there’s

fourth major insurer to leave the Florida market in the past year, with most citing the risk from hurricanes.

I’m sure there are other contributing factors in that market but its telling that Florida is already experiencing issues like this related to significant climate events

Just imagine that instead of it being CO2 it was trash in the ditches
It would be easy to identify and do something about
We’d probably pass anti-littering laws
And we’d deal with the problem WE caused
Birds dont tend to buy stuff from McDonals and leave the wrappers in the dish. Or drink beer and toss the cans out

But, its CO2


Hi Bob, naw, it’s nothing like that at all.

I have just had to fix waaay too many issues with the government and selling an empty bill of goods to the people. After a while it gets REALLY repetitive and old quickly.

Yes, I think we landed on the moon. Slavery is never good - I am in Canada and part of my family helped with the underground railroad.

I am just hoping that one of the green promises that are made will actually come true. I am still remaining hopefull, although that light is dimming.

It certainly wont come true IF we continue to elect the government we have now
They have NO foresight and have laid waste to decent, not perfect, plans and programs put in place by their predecessors
I’m sure O & G businesses, and ag tbh, were happy as hell when they were elected

I can see that we will respectfully disagree.

Getting back on topic, maybe there will be a greener energy - for our Country’s benefit - I hope this is true.

There is
We just have to stop ignoring it as a viable option
And invest in it, and the solutions to the issues that come with it like storage, like we did the petroleum industry way back when Leduc # 1 was eventually found

The provincial government resorted to subsidies and tax relief for companies to encourage further exploration.[11]

When talking about electric cars it’s hard decision for me what to do next…

My current car is a 2003 Camry (bought new) with low milage (very short commute to work though I live in the suburbs and need a car) that, come December, I will have had it for 21 years and I hope to keep it for a year or two more… (been starting to have issues)

I don’t have a garage and the house is old with 100 AMP service - and already has electric heat for part of it…

Even if charging was not an issue at home, there is the range issue…

While I have a very short commute now, I will likely be retired anytime between now and 2ish years from now (I’m 68)… And money then will be pretty tight (Social Security is not that generous and good medical/pharmaceutical coverage with medicare is far from free in the US - IMO medicare advantage is only a good deal while one is in good health!)… So the added purchase cost matters.

Once retired we want to do some road trips before we get too old (we have not taken any vacations for about 5 years to save for retirement - and have only taken 2 major vacations in the last 38 years) … Electric is a problem for that because of charging on the road…

Then there is the fact it will be our LAST car if we keep a new one for 20+ years (assuming we live that long)… and one should not count on the battery lasting more than 10 years… and at least now, replacing the battery in an EV is VERY expensive…

BTW I live in New England, and while it does not compare to Canada, the winters here can have some very cold stretches, and that saps batter range too…

While I do care about the environment, all of the above says a good efficient gas powered vehicle (like a new gas powered Camry) might make the most sense in my case… If in 10+ years there are still plenty of gas stations and gas is a reasonable price…

  • Karen

Apart from the Nissan Leaf, which has a poor reputation with its battery, and possibly the Chevy Bolt, which I hear has a lousy battery platform and it’s discontinued anyway …

For the vast majority of EVs the concern about the battery is misplaced. Both the battery and the car will last longer than you will. The battery range will gradually drop from 100% to maybe 85% but that’s about it. They don’t short out or quit holding a charge. People are driving early Teslas (2008, 2009) now well over 10 years old and still running just fine. Other than consumables (tires, wipers, brakes) and some of the aforementioned range degradation, they’re fine.

There are far fewer things to maintain on an EV. I take my Ioniq into the shop and they just check the fluids and tire tread and send me on my way.

Range anxiety is a somewhat more substantive matter. It is being rapidly addressed though, as to improvements to the charging network, faster charging speeds, and better battery technology. I would nurse the Toyota a couple more years and then see what your options are. A lot of improvements are coming down the pike.

Keep in mind though that trickle-charging (“Level 1”) from a 117 volt outlet is all alot of people will ever need. It’s all I used except on the rare longer road trip. Every Saturday or Sunday night I plug the car in and it takes maybe 12 to 18 hours to top off. It’s slow but perfectly adequate.

The car needs 12 amps to charge that way, so a dedicated 15 amp circuit that is not used for anything else (at least at the same time) will work. Your 100 amp service is not, by itself, an obstacle so long as you can spare a circuit for the car for part of a day per week and the circuit is grounded.

If you need to top off quickly for an unusual trip, the dealer usually has a (generally free) fast charger that will get you full in less than an hour, often way less depending on the car and the charger. In my area I get to know the locations of all the fast chargers including the commercial ones. There’s one on the way to all the main highway destinations. It is just a little more planning. But in truth, for daily commutes, you no longer need to go somewhere to get “fueled”, you can do it at home.

Now for long road trips, yeah, you want at least 300 mile range and fast charging ability. 400 or even 700 miles would be even better (typical ICE vehicles can go 600-ish). My '21 Ioniq is not the latest model (295 mile range) but rather just 180 miles. I bought it for my main use case which is local errands basically (I work from home). It’s fine for that. We have a conventional SUV for long road trips and a few other things (hauling the dogs around, etc) that sits mostly idle. The plan is to wait for a 350-400 mile or more range small electric SUV and trade them both in and make that our last car.

All that said, I only put 2500 miles a year on the EV so in that sense I’m not really contributing that much. 2500 miles a year on a reasonably efficient ICE vehicle would truthfully probably be about the same environmental impact. If you are talking about a nearby job in the short term, running errands, and an occasional long road trip in the car, then the standard vehicle would be fine, but because I think at least for personal cars and light trucks everything will be 100% electric in a few years I don’t want to deal with the possibility of it being difficult to maintain or fuel a conventional vehicle in, say, 10 years.

That’s why I’d say, put it off as long as the old car will reliably get you from point A to point B, and re-assess.

Also consider that it doesn’t have to be a buy and hold forever final car … if you see the market going where you want it for an EV but it’s not quite there yet you could just do a short to medium term lease as a bridge.

Plugin hybrid alleviates many of those range issues
While not fully electric it may be a good intermediate step

its what I’m looking at for a replacement of my wife’s Durango so I can park my F350
or sell it

It’s a known fact that frequent use of fast chargers is not good for battery. Batteries don’t fail often but who is willing to take a change buying expensive used car with possibility of a costly battery replacement in near future? That also means that resell value drops faster and a lot more than it does with diesel and petrol cars.

Cite sources please

Petrol engines fail too - not frequently - but it happens
My aunt & uncle had to replace an engine in their Chevy several years back.

But that doesn’t stop their sales because “OMG the engine might throw a piston or rod”

I’d hazard a guess that when petrol engines first rolled out they had vastly more problems than they do today. Remember we are at the START of the EV trend unlike where we are at with petrol engines having been around nearly 100 years.

There’s a lot of misinformation and half truths being peddled about EV’s, Hybrids, and how they are worse than existing vehicles for the environment because they require MORE mining than we currently do. Or that this mining is worse than what we do now for fossil fuels.

Sorting through all that is tough

But anyone wanting to stay with petrol engines CAN
No one is forcing them to do ANYTHING
Will gasoline & diesel become increasingly expensive ? Quite likely.
Will the price of EV’s etc come down ? Quite probably.
Will their reliability increase ? I’d expect so as the tech evolves.
Will their ranges increase ? I’d expect so as the tech evolves. It already has over their short lifetime.

I’m seriously contemplating a move to a Plugin Hybrid for my next vehicle to replace a gigantic Ford gas guzzler - not only because it would be better for the environment but because it would be easier on MY pocketbook.
I currently drive an F350 that, fortunately, sits idle MOST days.
Its fuel efficiency is 18L / 100Km (truly awful)
The replacement I’m looking at is 4.5L / 100 Km
That alone should save me several hundred per month esp in the winter when I ski a lot
For the trips I do to / from the ski hill I’d probably NEVER use any gasoline

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Yes, but repairs seldomly cost 10k to 15k €. After first spending almost 40k € for a car that would be a big money for me. I also think It’s a bit sad that next generation can’t enjoy track days with a proper car.

We got a non-plugin it and love it. We had a Ford Expedition and now have the Ford Escape Titanium package. It’s NOT a plugin and OMG, around town, if we’re light on the gas pedal we can drive on just the electric. But a slight hill or the air conditioning coming can trigger the fuel engine.

But we bought it to use less gas and it’s doing the job!

Maybe our next car will be all electric, but first we need chargers in our condo…

New engine for Chevy I mentioned + other require repairs when it blew up 16K

So yeah it not cheap to replace an engine, or battery, would you need to

Plug an EV doesnt need a transmission or cooling system or ANY of those other bits that can got wonky

Yeah they can
A Tesla 3 will kick the ass of any petrol car
Was in the passenger seat of the #8 (I think it was 8) in Germany when driver proved that point
Left the Bugatti in the dust in no time flat

EDIT : more likely 11 not the 8

EDIT 11 : this

Yeah for us a plugin hybrid would likely be a transitional vehicles as the infrastructure gets built out

It’s too heavy for the track. Sure, it goes fast on a straight line but I can probably keep up with an old Renault Megane build for track and weighting about 950 kg. Tesla can have one or two fast laps but after that brakes are no more and car probably starts to limit the power to save battery. I also have to admid that I still smile like a little boy when engine revs go over 4500 and engine starts to sound like a race car… ;D