Is Xojo Considered "Low Code"?

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I would probably put this into three categories of programmers : Beginner, Intermediate, Professionals

Beginner: This is a person who would create a program that is a glorified calculator to help them do something at work. In this case Xojo would be considered lower code - similar to Visual Basic 6.

Intermediate: A programmer would likely have limited database use a small amount of graphics, create multi-page Windows (forms), network communication and start using plugins. Not low-code, and not high-code either. Intermediate programmers would see that workarounds are needed and plugins can usually get their final goal of creating a decent program.

Professionals: Uses most advanced programming techniques, large databases, creates plugins, works with pointers, declares, .dll .so, scalable programs, performance really matters, Xojo would be considered High-code as you will need to work with details of each operating system, likely program in C/C++/Object C and port code over to Xojo. Usually plugins are able to get you 90% to your final goal of a program, and workarounds can be a nightmare because the solution to code simply doesn’t exist, which means you have to create it yourself which more than doubles your work. I have found that it is much easier to write a complicated program in C++ rather than use Xojo, since creating plugins, declares, and such and port it to Xojo requires a large amount of time.

Just my two cents :slight_smile:

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82

That’s one possible definition but not the commonly known one what low code is all about. Right?

However, your categorization would fit the understanding of the Inc., since pros are no longer their target group, i.e. a tool for beginners or small tasks, I can sympathize with that idea :wink:

83

No, really NO C++ programmer or C Programmer or Java programmer would code in Xojo language. For what? There is no need. When and if you can program Java, C++, C, C# why you should use Xojo? There is no need for. I was doing it while one of my customers wanted it. And that was not a friendship from the beginning while the docs are not even comparable with Java docs and C++ docs where I am used to. There is nearly no documentation.

So programmer which are in Business will not land after their studies on Xojo. They will land on Java, C++, C+ C#, possibly GO, Javascript but I never saw one after studies of computer science or mathematics starting with Xojo. Everything what I could do with Xojo the last two decades I could also do with Java and even in C# and surely also with QT/C++. There was nothing impossible in that languages but possible with Xojo. Sorry.

And there is the next: I really like to do hardcoding for my GUI. I can use the tools and there are state of the art tools for java. No need for Xojo. And all of them together are not as expensive as Xojo is.

So again my question: why should a real professional programmer switch to Xojo? I would never do it and all programmers I know would also never even consider to do a project in it.

For me when I was cutting the project in Xojo and rewrote in Java it was like holiday. All the workarounds in Xojo I didn’t needed one in Java. And there is the difference.

84

Unfortunately, Xojo’s many bugs and the questionable quality of the documentation make it a difficult tool for beginners.

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85

:wink:

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86

I’d consider this being a marketing stunt in favour of Xojo, much like this one:
https://forum.xojo.com/t/something-pretty-right-the-history-and-legacy-of-visual-basic/74891

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87

You convinced me, Xojo is the right tool for this type of application!

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Screenshot 2023-03-25 at 16.47.36
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89

Master and disciple?

90

Tim helped people a lot on TOF but then he was gone and disappointed but in 2021 it came to the resurrection.

He left FM: Claris Community (English)

He left Xojo in 2019 Xojo in 2019: An Update

and came back: Xojo: Looking Back, and Looking Forward

So watch your words, any of us could be a Xojo MVP in a few years. You never know, even Steve Jobs somehow lives on. :slight_smile:

91

But it’s okay if someone still sees a chance in Xojo and then comes back. Why not, if it seems right for his business.

I like to burn my hands just once, but my hands are probably bigger …

92

In 2021 devs started leaving the FileMaker platform in numbers. Many took a look at Xojo. Unfortunately, Xojo is a lot of promises and marketing boast - and a lot less substance.
Anyone who wants to escape Claris’ marketing hell will find in Xojo’s marketing hell an even hotter place :face_vomiting:

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93

Ok, I probably have the definition of low-code wrong.
It seems Zoho Creator is low-code - is this correct?

The definition of high-code would be C/C++/Object C, correct?

94

Exactly, all tools where the end user can create a program, a report, a view without actually having to program, but that doesn’t mean that the end user doesn’t have to understand a little “logic”.

Here’s what I’ve always liked to explain to clients, albeit not quite textbook-wise:

Do you know Excel? Yes! The Formula Assistant is low code. When you need to use VBA that’s development.

I think you get the idea ;-). I posted the other day the definition of Gartner which is more precise:

Low-code development is rapid application development or high-productivity development, with an option to use code or scripting

That’s why I like the picture with excel, the formula assistant helps you to generate some “code”, but once the end user might get enough information to correct the generated formula to its need.

So in difference to no-code tools (which I doubt are very useful) a low code tool will generate via graphical interfaces some starting point to code upon, which might or not be changed by the end user, but w/o that the end user needs a deep understanding of programming.

The following article is probably helpful Low-Code vs No-Code: A Platform Comparison. too, especially the summary:

“When evaluating no-code and low-code development tools, go beyond the vendor’s marketing message to assess the underlying approach to their development tools or platforms,” writes Gartner. “Just because a vendor is marketing ‘low-code’ may not mean it’s for professional developers, and another marketing ‘no-code’ doesn’t always mean it’s for citizen developers.”

I think the marketing of Xojo as “low-code” is based on e.g. having a layout manager for the GUI, having methods to invoke a file dialog, having routines to loop over recordsets, etc.

One can argue about that. But it’s not a tool that we can hand over to an accountant and he could start constructing his queries and forms ;-). It is a programming language and not a low code tool.

I would consider Explore Integrations - IFTTT to be no-code. and Zoho Creator to be low code indeed.

95

Well Xojos claim and narrative to be “low code” is just a joke. And as everybody know, repeated jokes aren’t funny anymore.

Basically low code development is nothing more like an incarnation of Object Vision following a decision tree without the need to type in code anymore but rather click something in a more or less visual enviroment. Not really something new. Maybe our “stable genius” heard it somewhere recently.

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96

Absolutely, and more importantly if he believes what he is talking about then we need to see soon a complete different product :slight_smile:

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Xojo is not no code and not low code. Xojo needs more lines of code than java or c++ and I do not doubt also c#. Why they tell that? Cause people shall think and believe that it is totally simple to write programs. What shall I say. It is not.

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Low code platforms are not good a this:
https://forum.xojo.com/t/curlsmbs-yieldtime/75152
Xojo least offers a workaround, in all fairness.

99

Well, Xojo also has a lot of nice features and very often workarounds, otherwise there wouldn’t be any users at all.

The only tricky thing is that workarounds often no longer work with the next update, and you still need the update (because you paid for it and because it might correct other bugs). This is the vicious circle and it is to be feared that the Inc. will not get out of it, at least it will not happen quickly, if at all.

And then there’s the Xojo paradox. The Inc. claims that you don’t need plugins and the manufacturers show how to circumvent parts of the problems with plugins. If both parties worked together, it would probably be better for everyone.

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100

True low code stuff :joy::
https://tracker.xojo.com/xojoinc/xojo/-/issues/68894#note_553820
https://forum.xojo.com/t/mysql-boolean/75433