I think we all wish Xojo was doing these types of improvements

Looking at the Go blog at The Go Blog - The Go Programming Language the 10 items still on the front page are mostly language improvements and adding support for standards. Most won’t affect all developers but overall will influence all future Go developers if that makes sense. 2% there, 5% there, reproducible builds, profile optimization compiling, fixing a long-term loop issue (while not breaking old code) are the things that I think we all wish Xojo was doing.

Makes me sad about all the time and effort that went into the (now deprecated) Xojo framework, API 2, and Android and other things that don’t benefit everyone. The wasted effort while alienating your existing user base…

VSCode puts out a bug fix release every month and is constantly optimizing and tweaking things. It’s highly extensible and there are a lot of useful add-ons that would be awesome to have in the Xojo IDE.

The Xojo IDE was released in 2013 and was clearly a step back in functionality in my respects to the older Real Studio and yet we’ve still got the same pig after 10 years and it’s not getting any better. This despite markups shown at XDC that are now 5+ years old.

Clearly, at least to me, is that the captain is rearranging the deck chairs while the musicians play.

Sorry, feeling nostalgic on a Friday afternoon.


And then there was this discussion today on TOF: Feature request that'll never happen: Traits - #6 by Thom_McGrath - General - Xojo Programming Forum

Honestly, does anyone expect Xojo to add said language feature? Nope, me neither.

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  1. you need to understand why its needed / wanted
  2. you need to deign & implement it in the compiler

and I’m not sure those two will happen

0% probability it will ever happen

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That is not true, it is a little faster and with a few improvements… However, those improvements really are for a couple releases, not a DECADE. Xojo is not standing still, but is crawlling painfully slow.

Buy yes, the ide was already obsolete when they launch it, and there is no willingness to improve it, For example this, FR, maybe Im wrong, but looks like it will take maybe a day for them to resize controls but will improve productivity for all the users… Xojo: Account Login
Ignored as expected.

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Those Go improvements are since August. If you look at the rest of the year there are similar things getting released all year. That’s what you get when people have access to the source code and have a need. Xojo’s closed source and they don’t see the need.

Then they’d need a compiler engineer… That’s a different story.


Go is great at solving specific types of problems. Their standard library is probably second to none.

I don’t think there is a world where Xojo ever gets go like primitives such as coroutines. It would be a significant rewrite and become something else entirely.


I believe this is due to a more significant problem, Xojo’s been losing sales way before “2.0 All The Things™” was a twinkling in the CEO’s eye.

The arguing with customers and repeating claims that can’t be backed up “There’s great benefits to API 2.0” (yet every time I’ve asked for FAB, I get nothing) are desperate cries of not conceding even in the face of defeat.

It feels like the CEO honestly believed API 2.0 would cause a resurgence in sales, but it is undeniable that it had the opposite effect, with the CEO’s attitude actually accelerating the company’s demise.

We all know that we as a collective tried to save the company, while the CEO just shot more holes in the hull.

I feel sorry for all of those who’re going to face difficult times once Xojo is relegated to a footnote in the history of software development.

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I believe EVERY single former employee that I’ve spoken with has said something to the effete of Geoff is the products biggest impediment (or words to that effect)

Dont get me wrong - Geoff is a nice guy
But he’s not a good product manager
But RB/Xojo is his baby and he will tell you he knows exactly what it should be
Problem is that those people who don’t share his particular vision are irrational, unreasonable, or whatever. Basically they’re wrong. And you’ll get excommunicated for that eventually.

And so he can drive the RB/Xojo train off whatever bridge he wants
He can be right as hell
And do whatever
Guy Kawasaki once wrote

*“Let a hundred flowers blossom.” I stole this from Chairman Mao. Innovators need to be flexible about how people use their products. Avon created Skin So Soft to soften skin, but when parents used it as an insect repellant, Avon went with the flow. Apple thought it created a spreadsheet/database/wordprocessing computer; but, come to find out, customers used it as a desktop publishing machine. The lesson is: Don’t be proud. Let a hundred flowers blossom.

Geoff’s figuring out how to make us NOT use his “Skin So Soft” as insect repellent

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Absolutely agree, Xojo is capable, but every-time we ask for improvements that move the goalposts even a little, the excuses come out as to why it needs to stay the way it is. The x-plat argument is the weakest of the lot as it wasn’t a problem in the past.

A shrinking customer base is great way to prove that you know exactly what you’re doing. I have read that by the time it is undeniable your product is in decline, the damage has been done and it is already too late.

It is frustrating to watch, to care about the product and the community, yet the CEO would rather argue and belittle you out of here, than take a moment and consider, what if. It is as if making suggestions is personally attacking him, its as if the mere idea that he may need to change is so frightening to him, that he must ensure it dies.

His arrogance doesn’t just hurt him, it hurts the employees, it hurts those who’ve also built a business around Xojo. Its all avoidable, if only the CEO would let go of his pride and compromise.

Like all of you have done, I am in the process of unhitching my caravan and moving on. Standing still in the middle of the dessert with no food or water is just waiting for certain death.


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It already is. :cockroach::spider_web::spider_web::spider_web::cockroach:

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Well, if you’re in the middle of the dessert, you have food :wink:


Or these

Xojo hasn’t seen any languages changes in a VERY long time

  • no VAR doesnt count
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That’s because the language is perfect! Dear Leader has told us that many times! And we are not a cult!

I suppose when you dont understand why async / await are already reserved words in Xojo :slight_smile: and what they might be used for then sure its “perfect”
I think there are others as well like WITH

FEARLESS Leader has told us that many times!


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Yes, AMEN!

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I’m sure I recall one time Geoff said something about Bus drivers, people who don’t use Xojo because they like it, but use it because they get paid to use it or something along those lines. I read it as him saying, customers who don’t for things and only need a small percentage of what we offer.

It is amazing how once you start looking, Xojo is so far behind their competition that I’m genuinely surprised people even consider it. Many tools can do a far better job, for a fraction of the price or even for free.

Some of things I’ve seen seen over these last few months, Xojo hasn’t a hope in hell of ever catching up.


I’m falling increasingly into that camp
My clients use it
I know it
So they keep me gainfully employed doing it

But I do try & push them to consider alternatives
One I’ll probably do that much harder with for their Android project
Xojo isnt there - yet - and I dunno if/when it ever might be serviceable enough
I dont need rocket science but even client see’s its not there - yet
So moving to something else - lord knows what - but “something” else may make more sense
They’ve been waiting for about 5 years and are disappointed Xojo Android isnt in better shape than it is

What I like is I can be very frank with them & they are upfront and frank with me & understand that this is the way things are


This, exactly. I was heavily immersed in the Xojo world and it wasn’t until my employer forced me into the Golang world that I discovered Xojo sucks in so many ways. Don’t get me wrong, it still has some nice features but the language isn’t growing, optimizations and security aren’t even on their radar (mostly), and the IDE is an inferior product that can’t be enhanced. And Go and VSCode are free.

Add a growing bug list, targets that don’t mean anything to me (or my employer), API2 forcing a needless rewrite, and I just look around and ask why anyone is still using Xojo other than simply because of momentum.

Go certainly has it warts and it’s not really competing in the same desktop space that Xojo is but it is an example of a language that is constantly striving to get better and it appears that they listen to their developer community with their surveys. And that’s more than we can say about Xojo.