Feedback replaced...implications for Web 2.0

Whilst Xojo Inc accepting that bug tracking software isn’t something they should be working on but instead focusing on their product is a good thing, does that also imply that even they accept Web 2.0 just isn’t ready to build such an app?

Does it also mean that fixes for the bugs they’d have hit along the way will no longer impede them so will now be left like so many other bugs?

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I have to admit I’m not sure how to take this “we’re shelving our web 2 feedback app”

Not sure if that means Web 2 isn’t up to the task
Or if its Issues just handles bug tracking so well we’re going to use that
Or maybe something else
Geoffs blog sure indicates its the second choice above

However, it certainly seems to mean that Xojo still has no major Web 2 projects that THEY need/make/use daily to point out the issues in Web 2

Using Xojo isn’t the same as Using Xojo Web
Xojo is a desktop app
Folks aren’t bitching about how crappy that is. its workable
But web 2 still needs work

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Just guessing, but it might be that Feedback using Web2 was Greg’s pet project and since he’s no longer with the company no one was there to champion the project. It is concerning that Web2 doesn’t have a tent pole project to hang its hat on which is sad.

With that said, I’m happy they’re using a solution that they themselves don’t have to maintain. One less distraction for a tiny development team. The community is losing the ability to add ‘points’ to an item but that’s been broken for so long that I feel like it’s probably a good thing.


Obviously NOT. I cant picture Xojo being able to delivering something like the new system (without a lot of hacks and reinventing the wheel by hand many times)

A great thing, this is a real improvement.

I’m sure there are reasons that we don’t know
But so far Issues seems better
There are issues with Issues
Putting in multiple search terms doesn’t seem to work.
So that makes it hard to find some specific cases I know exist that I wanted to upvote (like the debugger skipping breakpoints)

Upvote downvote seems better than the whole points thing
We’ll see if that also happens to have more influence or not

I was planning to use the web2.0 feedback app as an indicator of how robust the new platform was for commercial use. But I think you’re right that it’s still probably good news. Maybe they’re conceding the impossible and focusing on the obtainable.

From what I gather from the blog post, they were using GitLab Issues internally already and just found they liked it more. The fact that they were using GitLab Issues instead of Feedback for their API discussions is telling by itself. My guess is they were trying to get the Web version of Feedback up to match GitLab Issues, when it became obvious that it would be too much effort. It was the goalpost that just kept moving farther away.

When I was with Xojo, I had a mock-up of a web version of Feedback that I used as that goalpost.

Having worked with Xojo Web 2 for nearly 2 years now I can see why it kept moving further away

There are things you literally say to yourself “Oh how hard can that be just …”
And then you look at the DOM and realize that you have to hack everything to make that one stupid thing work


EDIT : I’m just glad they finally moved to something THEY don’t have to spend time maintaining and updating and can spend that time elsewhere. Like on Xojo and its frameworks

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This pretty much sums up all the time I’ve ever spent on WE.

If one thing, this is indeed a big plus. It is the first time I’ve seen a crack in their thick skull in quite some time where they finally realize they waste precious resources on ‘side-projects’. It does show Web 2.0 was not really up to the task, but that was for me quite obvious seeing the time they needed to get it made. We’ve written WebApps of a bigger magnitude in far less time in other tools.

If only they would now cut their losses with the other platforms like iOS and (especially) Android and started to focus back on the Desktop platforms, I may even consider reintroducing Xojo in my toolset. (this may be the beer talking :sweat_smile:)

And at least, the new feedback gave us an idea when to expect Android :grin:

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By 2022 they’d missed the boat, by 2030 that ship has long sailed. I’d recommend anyone wanting to develop Android apps that was waiting for Xojo takes a good look at B4A - it’s great! I can’t believe anyone is still waiting though…

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I do because my existing apps could communicate with an Android version (using TCP) without me having to rewrite the existing apps on the already supported systems.

That 2030 is just a place holder for somewhere in the future.
It ships when they feel it is ready.

Quite frankly, the lack of Web 2.0 feedback app is an indicator of how robust the new platform is for commercial use. I’ve been building things, and it’s hack after hack after DIY Javascript.

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I’ve spent literally HOURS trying to hack around one item to position controls and dialogs where I want - not where Xojo thinks they should be

blech !

it depends on is the control on a page, a dialog, is it in a container on a page, in a container on a dialog

and don’t get me started on is it in a container in a container on a page, dialog etc …


yup, and I have an acknowledged FC on that, but open for 2 years now.

Never draw one of those rectangles around any control, as you will end up in issues (not Issues). Frankly it would just have been better to hide that framing control, but they never did. Controls placed in such a container often can even no longer been addressed directly in the IDE (if you have many of them).

If a customer wants a very small change, it might costs you 2 hours playing around in the IDE. Time no customer will pay you for, as you can’t explain that making a few controls 5 px wider has cost you 2 hours :frowning:

Those were the drivers when I wrote my version of Geoff’s post this morning. I sincerely hope that the new tool will enable them to address the right priorities first.