Farewell Everybody

When I founded If Not Nil, I had the simple goal of creating a space on the internet for Xojo users to discuss programming / app-development topics. The official forum has strict rules preventing discussion of competing products and I wanted to talk about other tools with fellow Xojo users.

Unfortunately, I can’t help but feel that INN has become a rather toxic place. Many posts descend into bitching about Xojo Inc, the people that work there or the product itself. This is not what I envisaged happening and frankly it is no longer a place I enjoy being part of.

No doubt some users here will rant that I have become a mouthpiece for Xojo but the truth is I love Xojo - it’s why I created INN and it’s why I spend all of my free time creating things to share with others using Xojo.

For these reasons, I am handing over control of the forum to @npalardy. He has been instrumental in creating good resources on this site for the masses and trying to moderate what is posted here from the small number of unpleasant users that have gravitated here.

I’m starting the process of transferring ownership of the DigitalOcean droplet that the site runs over to Norman and I’m cancelling the Patreon funding. If you wish to continue supporting the site monetarily, Norman will have to arrange this.

I will say two things in leaving.

  1. If you have something negative to say about a person (be they an employee of Xojo or someone else) please think about the content before you post it. Don’t write something that you wouldn’t have the nerve to say to their face. There are too many personal attacks here about users and Xojo Inc employees and it is not OK.

  2. I think a lot of the users posting repeatedly bad things should either just move on and leave Xojo alone - why spoil it for the rest of us or accept that you’re still passionate about the product and try to be more positive about the tool.

If you need me, I will be over on the official forums.

Hi Garry,
Let me first thank you for having created this place. It is obvious that not all things can be discussed on a vendor-owned forum (not using here the word community, because this implies a certain number of rights of their members).

The Xojo Inc’s forum is a rude place and members can get roughed up quickly by people with moderator rights is a known fact and documented. We all witnessed that.
That people who run such a rude place may complain about being derided is strange.

I have been using Xojo only for a few months for evaluation if it could be my next development platform. In this time I learned that an open discussion about technical issues is not what Xojo Inc wants. Things are moving behind the scenes, no talk.

In the months I have been evaluating Xojo I observed questionable development practises like ‘archiving’ bug reports. I did search the internet and found out that this dropping of bug reports is going on for years. Again no discourse possible with Xojo Inc, whatever issues members of their forum raised (‘Xojo Bot works as expected’). This method of forcing silence about crucial issues on a community is highly toxic and poisons relationships over time by eroding trust. Xojo Inc has the remarkable ability to erode trust down to bedrock in record time.

Many members here are or have been Xojo enthusiasts. Over the last months it became apparent that many, if not most, have moved or are moving away from Xojo to other languages and IDEs. I take it that Xojo Inc is perfectly happy with letting customers go - and no talk.
I highly doubt that there will be a need for an independent Xojo forum in the near future as people who get to the point of looking beyond Xojo Inc’s forum here are in the process of changing language and IDE.

Xojo could be a great product, a great development platform. But it isn’t. The reason for this lies entirely within Xojo Inc.
Improvement starts with acknowledging facts, implementation of corrective actions and bi-directional communication with the community. Fantastic marketing claims, deflective strategies and the law of silence are no surrogate to this.

Thank you again and wishing you all the best!
Torsten

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I totally agree with @Torsten_B and I want to thank you too Garry for setting up this forum as a platform where people can openly discuss al kind of cross platform tools. It is clear that it was dearly needed because of the many eyebrow raising practices on TOF. I agree some posts are a little edgy here but on the other hand they are often much closer to the truth than the (artificial and misleading) things you can read on Xojos official forum.

I also want to wish you all the best in all your future endeavours!

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Contoverse discussions are not always in that shape they should be. And yes, many people which left Xojo are still interested, downloading new Versions of it and trying and testing it. Not while they have left but while they also love the concept behind Xojo. If you ask me: many of the ones here which are not part of the Xojo community anymore and not every day users of Xojo thinking so.

That dies not mean that your conclusion is not the right one. It means only that I have - in a closer view - another intention looking on it.

And yes, there are rantings. What do you expect. When Xojo destroys with Changes the work of years? People relying their entire business model on it. That is also something we should not forget when speaking bout people which are ranting.

I do not want to make an advertisement to hold you here. You have your decision. Sadly is that the banned people can’t contact you at the official Forum. They are not allowed to write there a private message even.

And we also have no chance to get back there. Asking for removing the ban gives until now always the same answer. Not even the testers access is allowed. Only for not banned people. So I guess you get: there is no way for us to stay in contact with people from the other forum.

I have to say thank you for supporting the Community and for helping all the people which had no chance anymore to get needed informations. Even when and if it is how to leave and where are alternatives and how complex that would be…or is it even better to live with the Workarounds…all that is possible only here. And even for that Idea I have to say thank you.

I deeply believe that NPalardy will keep this forum in shape. And I would appreciate when and if one day you are back. At least as Forum user.