Crap, that’s why it’s so depressing in here… I thought this was a forum “you could speak your mind about problems in Xojo freely”, which implies most users still use Xojo but have problems using it. It turns out this is a forum of ex-Xojo users that do their best to burn Xojo to the ground to organize a party on it’s ashes.
well then this maybe not the right forum for you… nor it’s nice to catch a topic… this here is/was about hiring…
I though DaveS started catching the topic. He wasn’t exactly reacting on the question asked either… 
Go for it
Ask questions and those who are here may be able to help
several of us still do for various purposes
Not sure I’d say most
Some - mostly to do with bugs that in some cases are long standing and not fixed so either a workaround is need or “do something else” is required
Some have no “problems” using it and have done so for very long times
I’ve used it for > 20 years
And still post tips like this from time to time
There is a LOT of the disappointment with Xojo is a result of just the slow pace at which bugs get fixed
TBH I think you mischaracterize things
There ARE a lot of disillusioned Xojo uses and former users here
Some folks have transitioned entirely away from it after bad &/or costly experiences
Even after trying to enlist Xojo to aid them they were rebuffed
And banned from Xojo’s forums
Some still use Xojo for their work - but their workplace is making moves away from Xojo
And some still use it all the time but are disappointed with Xojo & its pace of correcting bugs
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This!
I now use PHP and no longer have these issues.
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Sorry to hear all that. After some “depression” about the API transition I was finally getting exited again using Xojo and I just finished a very nice music project that can let me kick Apple Music to the curb and allowed me to port my 20 year old digital music collection to a new app I wrote with some very nice features I wished iTunes/Apple Music had. Yesterday I even found out that with minimal changes my app even runs on Windows. So I kinda stepped in here feeling very positively about Xojo and got depressed reading all this negative stuff 
Is it known if something is happening within Xojo that causes these problems? I read stuff about Geoff Perlman’s big ego? People leaving a sinking ship? Is it really that bad or is that just rumors? (and sorry for being off topic, so: is there a topic about this with info about the situation?)
What do you use to build user interfaces? PHP is just code, isn’t it?
Yes. I use code instead of a GUI.
I use the current version of Bootstrap and a responsive layout using cards that vary in width. Looks like the pic below…
I don’t really need a gui designer and now prefer to not have a gui. My process is to create the db tables, generate meta data records for each column, and then use code to generate the module and cards and then customize.
FYI, the nav at the top is really nuts right now as I’m embedding two apps in the same code…
Here’s the code for the Contact Card:
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I worked there as did @Stretch327
So we have a different experience with Geoff than most people
And there are some things that we know about him that are probably not widely known
Nor do I feel at liberty to share them
And @jay is a long time personal friend of Geoff’s
His experience is different than mine or Gregs or any Xojo customers
Seek out posts by any of us and I think you’ll find a pretty consistent theme that Xojo, as a product, has/had a lot of promise that it hasn’t lived up to.
And I also think you’ll find that each of us is fairly consistent about the management of the company and the dismissal, or neglect, of “professional” users (usually folks trying to build businesses using Xojo or build commercial software using Xojo)
And there are lots of experiences posted by people who are/were users that have a different perspective
And you will find others like yourself where Xojo still fits their needs very well
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In the first 3 or 4 years of Realsoftware I tried to tell/persuade/educate/instruct/enlighten/inform/communicate/demonstrate to Geoff that he was running "Geoff Inc’ and not a functional company. Its closer to a flower shop that an enterprise.
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I think it safe to say that many (most?) really liked the product. I was a Xojo consultant for over 20 years. Made a good living working on a ton of different private and commercial products. There are several things that have really gnawed at the long-time developers over the years until we reached a breaking point.
For some it was the Web1 to Web2 transition (or lack thereof).
For some it was the API1 to API2 debacle where (I personally) was told that I’m not part of their target audience. This was after many of presented really good arguments on why API2 would hurt developers. After years of seeing our predictions come true I think we all feel sad because we would have loved to have been proven wrong.
The many years of Android development. Like iOS before it it’s hamstrung with lack of power and compromises that make it hard to make a good mobile app. How many more years will it take for Android to be usable? For that matter many ask how many more years before iOS is usable?
Bugs: what can you say about bugs? If it’s YOUR showstopper bug it’s the most critical thing ever. If it doesn’t affect others it is hard to get them fixed. There are bugs that have been in the system for many, many years that just piss people off. And the rapid release model doesn’t lend itself well to stability because they’re always introducing new features. Many of us would like an LTS version every year that is strictly bug fixes but in 20 years of dealing with Xojo it’s not going to happen.
If you are working on a desktop app you pretty much have the best of Xojo. It’s the oldest, most mature, part of the product. It’s also full of compromises and if you want to make a 100% fully native Mac or Windows app you will need to jump through considerable hoops. If you’re okay with the compromises then it’s relatively easy. My clients, back in the day, were variable with how compliant it needed to be on each target platform. Your mileage may vary.
Frankly, I could go on and on but it’s not worth it. If Xojo suits your needs that’s great. For many of us it no longer does so we’ve moved on. FWIW, I still use Xojo on a regular basis though we are actively moving to a different language.
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Exactly. It was a product which was beloved by the customers. No question. And the community around melted down.
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That’s sad to hear. I think me working from a hobby standpoint puts me further away from the core of the problems you describe. I’m not using it on a daily basis (unless, like now, I’m in a programming frenzy trying to get an app finished with a wishlist that gets longer instead of shorter) and for most of the time I was only working on Mac apps. Only recently I wanted to make Windows versions of my apps and started to discover that. But I did have issues with the API 1 to 2 transition, since my biggest project (a piece of CRM software that is running our entire company with 15 people and €3 million turnover) has been driving our company since 2004 and having a project running that long means you have crossed some major transitions in the foundation of your code. My project started out in RealBasic. That and all my other little projects made me have a soft spot for Xojo and reading all this negative feedback made me sad.
Like I said it is ok And if it fits for you it’s great. I was using JoJo causes customer if mine wanted it. At the end it is so that I can say that I was really happy to have my tool chain to rescue the project at the end.but it’s ok. Even if I would consider for hobby stuffs to use another language. But what ever: if it fits for ya it fits.
Some still do
I still use it most every day but I’m also using other tools and some clients have taken steps to transition away from it because they have seen “the writing on the wall”
And I’ve been helping them as I fully understand their pain
The issues that are near & dear to them arent getting dealt with (fixed, implemented, etc) and so they are investigating and moving to other options that have those things fixed / implemented
Not everyone will feel those pain points
Sometimes a work around exists. Sometimes a plugin can fill that gap or provide the work around.
And its not always a bug or missing feature that is the pain point
One client wants an iOS and Android application
Android isnt even at the same stage as iOS
And to do so means quite literally creating two projects and two separate code bases and trying to keep them in sync
Other tools permit them to generate both iOS and Android from the same code base
Thats a big time saver in many ways
As we’ve said NOT every one will have the same issues / problems
But those of us that HAVE have met with a dismissiveness and failure to address them that has pushed us away from the tool
THAT is a managerial issue at Xojo - not a technical one
EDIT : Put it this way
Xojo works for lots of people - thats great
But it could be so much better/useful for so many more IF they would actually listen and understand the concerns of those of us that have chosen to express them
Instead they have dismissed them as “oh that only affects you” or “thats not useful to new users”, “trolling” and even banned some from their forums for expressing those opinions
And THAT, plus the issue with the tool itself, have contributed to many of the sour grapes type posts you see here
but if it works for you - great ! Have at it
And certainly feel free to ask questions as you may get answers that you might not get on Xojo’s official forums 
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You are very wrong, Burning xojo to the ground was the CEO own doing. This is a forum of ex-Xojo that were very sad looking it happend.
Wasting years in stupid renaming while the pile of bugs grow and basic functionality is decades outdated, half baked or not available at all…
Wasting years to have halfbaked crappy support for mobile instead of fixing the slow, not accesible, and made for 800x600 screens IDE…
Killing Web1 without warning, giving ZERO bug fixes to the Web1 IDE or framework, Launching a pre alpha quality web2, no reallistic way to update other than a full rewrite. Forcing a LOT of users to stay with old releases or do the rewrite in a better tool that is not killed like that.
Not having a “PRO” licence without mobile, wasting money in something that is so half baked feel like a ripoff and can dusuade a LOT of users from buying it.
Etc, etc, etc.
Buy yeah, you could say that all the problems are because he Thinks that “he knows best” what other users want instead of actually listening to the users…
I still user web1. Web2 is now kind of feature complete half a decade after its launch 
, I want to upgrade but Im still waiting for some other bug fixes and delayed features…
For desktop I use xojo 2019… All the “new” features are inferior to the plugins I already have or the custom controls I made. Bugs still there, IDE still Slow, not keyboard accesible, made for small screens so… A new licence is not worth the money.
The 2024r4 milestone looks interesting, lets see if they can deliver.
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R4 ?
or typo & you mean R3 ?
so far the new threads features seem to be causing exactly what was expected.
grief for anyone not familiar with how to even think about preemptive threads and where/ when they might cause conflicts
They are not easy and you need to know way more about the framework classes which isnt in the docs
Are folder items thread safe ? no idea
Binary Streams ? no idea
etc
All those things need to be in the docs but arent AFAICT
Yes, they put some IDE fixes for that milestone. I guess it will be just at the end of the year.
Im not even considering it as a feature in their first release, all the new features tend to be halfbaked and unusable on some cases.
Threads are not hard, just dont share objects lol.
Yes the way it is implemented it is prone to errors confusing users, it would be smarter to make a new class instead of being just a property in the same old thread class but…
objects
intrinsics
at least NOT without guards
but the posts on this sort of stuff on the forums show they ARE going to cause problems and a lot of the people doing the testing are “experienced”
Its going to hurt new folks
Agreed
Esp this notion of switching a thread from onetime to another and back and then having to match critical section, mutex, etc to the thread type
THAT will hurt - heck there are experienced people saying its already confusing
Sounds like annother genious idea of how to make things instead of using standards or asking others.
Or mabe he just needed a way to Self-fulfilling the prophecy:
“We dont have Preemptive threads because is too hard and users are going to be confused”…