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Title: Why I Transitioned Away from Xojo - A Developer’s Perspective

For more than two decades, I wore the badge of a Xojo developer with pride. I passionately blogged about the product, created over 200 training videos, spoke at numerous Xojo developer conferences, and even developed popular developer tools for reporting and database connectivity. My commitment to this platform went beyond professional; I started a professional developer group and co-organized two developer conferences. I was so deeply invested in Xojo that even my daughter, now a master’s graduate in computer science, began her coding journey with Xojo at the tender age of seven or eight.

However, the decision to stop consulting and pursue a full-time job was a challenging one. Building your business feels a lot like raising your children; you invest your heart and soul, hoping for its success. It was at that point when I couldn’t trust in the future of my business due to concerns about Xojo.

For those of you unfamiliar with Xojo, you’re not alone, and that’s part of the problem. Despite more than two decades in the commercial software development world, Xojo remains relatively obscure. In a nutshell, Xojo is a Rapid Application Development (RAD) tool used to create applications for Mac, Windows, Linux, iOS, Android, and the web. The language, while resembling Basic, compiles into native code and employs native controls wherever possible. Xojo’s integrated development environment (IDE) aims to help new users become productive quickly. But as I’ll explain, there are multiple reasons why I decided to part ways with Xojo.

1. A Shrinking Developer Community

Xojo’s developer community was never massive, and it’s not showing signs of growth. The issue? Many companies don’t adopt Xojo because they’ve never heard of it. It’s not listed in the Tiobe index, and a Google search yields scant information about it. In stark contrast to well-known languages like Java, C#, Go, Rust, Python, or PHP, Xojo remains in relative obscurity. The lack of third-party training classes and books for learning further compounds the problem.

2. Lack of Marketing Efforts

Xojo’s marketing strategies have been questionable at best. It’s unclear who their target audience is, and their efforts to attract new developers seem ineffective. As a consultant, I keenly felt the impact of this. A decade ago, people would explore Xojo, but they soon realized that building a robust application required more effort than they could invest. Consequently, they often sought professional developers, like myself, to create or fix their applications. However, the demand for consulting work gradually declined, leaving fewer opportunities for developers. The viability of the Xojo ecosystem is intricately linked with the consultants who support it.

3. ‘Citizen Developer’ Focus and Its Limitations

Xojo seems to emphasize catering to ‘citizen developers,’ individuals who build applications for personal or in-house use rather than for commercial purposes. However, these developers are often price-conscious, as they may be paying for licenses and libraries out of their own pockets or fighting with corporate IT for budgets. This leads to a limited third-party market, making it challenging to find suitable solutions.

4. Frequent Bug Issues

While Xojo introduced its Rapid Release Model years ago, the results have been less than stellar. Instead of large, more stable releases with occasional bug fixes, we received frequent but less substantial updates. These updates often fixed some bugs but introduced new ones, creating frustration. I can vividly recall chasing new versions of Windows technologies for nearly a year before stability was achieved. With the transition to API 2, there are only bug fixes for new classes and controls and not the older classes and controls. For those who worked on Web 1 projects, there are no bug fixes in sight as the company abandoned version 1 users.

5. Exclusive Reliance on Xojo

Xojo often promotes the idea of using their product to develop their product. While commendable, it results in them not using Xojo in the same way as the developer community does. This lack of empathy for developers’ daily challenges hampers the improvement of the product. The IDE lacks crucial features like a full-featured Rich Text control/library and dynamic reporting tools that business users require. Consequently, businesses may hesitate to invest in Xojo licenses.

6. Ignoring Customer Feedback

Despite receiving feedback from the community regarding the Xojo IDE, Web 2, API 2, iOS, and Android, Xojo often dismissed the input, stating that it didn’t represent the entire community. This approach frustrated professional developers and eroded their trust in the platform. Many of the most vocal evangelists have moved on to other languages.

7. Falling Behind the Technological Curve

Xojo lags behind in terms of features when compared to other languages. It struggles with concepts like concurrency, making its threading system subpar. Despite introducing the Worker class, the overhead of launching a Xojo console application is significant. Xojo’s limited support for concurrency leads to performance issues. The absence of Generics and inadequate integrated Git or Subversion support further limits the development experience.

In summary, my experience with Xojo led me to realize that the platform no longer met my needs. The transition from Xojo to other languages, such as Go and React, was challenging but enlightening. I’ve discovered that Xojo’s IDE is slow and outdated compared to modern development tools. As I adapted to Go, I encountered a more efficient, agile, and well-supported ecosystem that starkly contrasted with my Xojo experience.

My advice to my last Xojo consulting clients was clear: begin the search for a Xojo replacement sooner rather than later. The future of the platform appears uncertain, and it’s unclear whether the company will survive in the next five to ten years.

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A clear and concise summary of a developer’s journey from beginning to end with a platform that is going down.

A friendly description of systematic use of misleading claims and lying by omission.

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Nicely put.

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Didn’t you post that somewhere already?

I though I had read it before this.

-Karen

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Such a stark contrast to how things were many years ago

I hope it gets read by the powers that be at Xojo

However, I have every reason to believe it would simply be dismissed or ignored by them for any of a million reasons I’m sure anyone here can conjure up easily

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I would add that for the API1 to API2 transition as well as for the Web1 to Web2 transition, while abandoning API1 and Web1, Xojo failed to provide working migration tools, thus forcing developers and companies with API1 and Web1 code bases to manually rewrite entire applications and absorb the cost incurred - or remain with an outdated and no longer maintained version of Xojo for maintenance of their code base.

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That is very well written, Bob. I agree with what you wrote. I hope Geoff Perlman will think seriously about what you wrote when he reads your post.

I can feel your pain about Xojo, and it is very understandable. In fact, you had to throw away more than 20 years of experience because of the decisions of Geoff Perlman.

I never understood the decision of Xojo Inc. that pro developers were no longer their target. That is the group of developers where the money is coming from and delivers a stable user base. Maybe Xojo Inc. realized they could no longer fulfil the demands of pro developers. Who knows?

But Bob, you have to let go! I know it is challenging because it was excruciating and hurting when I was retrenched (my department closed) after almost 20 years of employment at Eriks NV/SA. I was utterly broken when I received the news on 21 May 2021.

My future looked dark and grim because what was my life for 20 years was just taken away from me. Day and night, Eriks could count on me for my technical experience.

After that weekend, I worked like I always did, helped close the department, and by the time I left (28 Oktober 2022), I had a new challenge already. I am migrating to Botswana and starting my own online business. Like with every startup, it is difficult and lengthy work days. The business has its ups and downs, but it is worth it. My happiness returned when I let go of my past, and my creativity followed.

You also have to let go of your Xojo past, Bob. Forgive what Geoff Perlman did to you. You will see, from that moment, life will get better. Remember that the “Law of Attraction” is always working, positive or negative!

Besides your excellent blog posts, I also read the book “No Regrets, Just Lessons” by Odetta Rockhead-Kerr. She live in Jamaica and went from very poor to very rich. When you read her life story (she had a tough childhood and a lot of setbacks), it is very refreshing. You can buy the book at Amazon. I suggest reading her book, which can help you (it helped me) to get rid of the pain and move forward.

Don’t remain in the past. Learn your lesson from past experiences and move forward to a bright future.

I am sure you make it in whatever you do!

Chris

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Sorry for this question. Does anybody know if Geoff Perlman or other Xojo Inc. people read the If Not Nill forum?

Thank you.

Chris

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I know that some Xojo employees do, but I don’t know exactly who does. Geoff hasn’t cared about what was said on the Xojo forum, so I don’t honestly think he’ll care about what is said here.

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I think I posted a variation of this while back. It’s been sitting on my desktop for a few months to see if I really wanted to post it on my new blog. Or maybe it just stays here. Dunno yet.

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Why do you seem to be so concerned about your PERCEIVED notion of the emotional state of various members here? You make it seem like Bob is on a downward emotional spiral, and may end up hurting himself or others unless Xojo rebounds and becomes the crown jewel of the Software Industry.

That Is far far from the truth, in relation to Bob or any other member of this forum. Nobody is “remaining in the past”, nobody “is in pain”, nobody is “broken” by what Xojo has and is doing. These are all your incorrect perceptions.

Bob and most others, realized that Xojo was no longer viable for their needs, and did move on, some to “GO”, some to “JAVA”, myself to “SWIFT” , to mention just a few.

So please stop with the amateur psychiatric examinations… and take your own advice. MOVE ON

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I do think Bob is, like many others, addressing the disappointment that Xojo seemed to fit the bill for what many of us wanted & needed and the simply appear to, for reasons unknown to us, abandoned us by pursuing their current path

And along the way they seemed to also just quit talking with all of those people who expressed any disappointment, or any degree of upset as they tried to understand why they were being abandoned

You’ll notice that over the past several years communication from anyone at Xojo has nearly completely dried up except fort the monthly newsletter
They dont participate much in their own forums
They’ve become very insular - as if the ONLY people who they might need to talk with and listen to are the handful of MVP’s

Its truly disappointing
I find this esp true since I poured a LOT of my time & effort into the product and into the forums

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One sees this in other contexts. Former members of some group X who might discuss their bad or regrettable experience or critiques of X are admonished that they are “obsessed” or even “hateful”. The real reason for such admonishments is usually (though not 100% always) that they are making the admonisher uncomfortable. I think Bad_Wolf is probably in the minority that are just genuinely concerned, though I still think it’s misplaced.

It’s actually healthy to have an outlet for these things. I know someone estranged from their adult child who reads every book on the subject and talks about their extensive feelings about the situation with trusted friends … this doesn’t mean they are obsessed, just that they are processing something consequential to them.

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I think it’s that we all want to be helpful and Geoff blatantly rejects all help.

So then the only thing that’s possible is to try and help others by helping them get what they need done or advice how to move on.

I don’t think anyone can comprehend Geoff’s decisions.

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I look at the posting on this forum in 3 ways

  • To vent frustration that Xojo doesn’t listen
  • To provide opinions the perhaps Xojo might hear
  • To warn potential new Xojo clients of the pitfalls they might face, in order that they make an informed decision
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Also keep in mind that I work with not just one, but THREE former Xojo engineers. And a year ago we had a dozen active Xojo developers all with a Pro license and now we’re down to five (with one of them being the build machine). So we have lots of Xojo experience and history and none of us are particularly happy with where Xojo has gone and how we (the collective we) have been ignored. Our products will NEVER be API 2 compliant because if we have to rewrite it we’ll just rewrite it into something else (most likely Go) and some lightweight front end.

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I think that @Bad_Wolf’s post is well-meaning.

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Steve Jobs would have understood :wink:

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It sucks
But if you’ve written your post from the perspective of “WE”, not just “BOB”, thats even more depressing that they’ve simply neglected customers who wanted to invest the kinds of money & time that you companies like yours have

While I appreciate trying to make it so everyone can code as a goal they’re not going to spend thousands, or tens of thousands, of dollars per year every year on what could amount to a hobby.
Some will.
But enough to sustain a company AND grow a company like Xojo significantly ?
TBH I’d say the answer is readily apparent.
They dont and/or there arent enough of them.
Xojo is about the same size now as it was 20 years ago.

That says a lot

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Thank you, Torsten,

You are correct; I didn’t mean anything harmful or hurting. With “I feel your pain”, I just wanted to say “I sympathise with you”.

I respect every member here, even when I disagree. I want to make clear that I have the highest respect for Bob Keeney in his profession and as a human. Like you, I am sure he understands perfectly the meaning of my words.

The book of Odetta Rockhead-Kerr has nothing to do with psychology but taking your destiny and success into your own hands. It is an alternative way to explain the Law of Attraction.

I want to apologize if what I wrote was offensive to anybody. That was indeed not my intention.

Thank you again for your correct interpretation of my post. I do appreciate it.

Have a nice day.

Chris

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