After waiting 4 years, and left 4 years ago there is Android

Starting the Android project without adding the necessary resources was a delusional endeavour. They ran it as a side-hustle and the lack of resources dictates the result.
Marketing Xojo Android as a for-pay product is a scam.

If you look at their bug tracker, it feels like most cases are for Android. Pay attention to the next release’s notes. The sheer quantity of Android bug fixes should give you an idea of its state. That doesn’t mean it can’t get better - in fact, the fact that stuff is getting reported is a good sign - but its state right now is definitely a beta. It’s not yet ready to be relied upon.

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It certainly can, over time. The timescale we are talking about is 3 to 5 years. Most likely it will end up like iOS support. The small team will have to rush to other fixes and additions all the time.
Then, a sudden API1 to API2-style change of everything can happen anytime. Who wants to bet their business on this kind of institutional madness?

I just hope for you guys who are still invested in Xojo that they do decide to get their act together. As for me, I’m going to stick with my current technology stack. I will continue using my Xojo 2019r2 license while I still have my project living there. Would be good to maybe move its functionality over to a more stable environment that I can control.

Good to see some old friends and some famous friends again banding together and finding ways to help each other out. :wink:

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I will add that this is not uncommon with Geoff. He overpromises and under delivers on practically everything I’ve ever talked to him about. Easy for him since he doesn’t do the work.

It wasn’t that long ago where the Xojo engineers found out AT (not before) XDC what they were going to scramble to work on in the next year. IIRC it was a threatened mass resignation that reversed this problem and they could at least edit and correct the slides and get some tossed because the timeframe wasn’t realistic.

Again, I would say that this is a sign of poor leadership by demanding an off the cuff estimate and then using that SWAG as an official estimate with customers. If you’re not asking the proper questions of your team and you’re not listening to them, or customers, then you might as well throw darts while blindfolded.

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Project manager 101: never promise a deliverable to a customer that your engineers have not yet confirmed.

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Lousy managers do that. After being tricked this way for the third time by your manager, you are looking for a new job…

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There was a summer where every Xojo engineer I was relatively connected to contacted me about a job…

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THAT is scary to hear… Way back when (15-20 years ago) I think the engineers had a lot more influence than they do now in terms of Xojo’s direction … at least there seemed to be fewer decision that seemed off the wall!

  • Karen
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Since I work with several engineers from that time period I disagree. I was told stories of engineers looking at each other in the back of the room mouthing, “WTF,” to each other during the keynote. Geoff used to give timeframes on new features and that’s been kiboshed by the engineers so that gives them some wiggle room. It’s why they came up with the 3 pronged naming convention (I forget what it was but it was there for wiggle room).

Now, with that said, I’m not saying it’s better now, because I think it’s gotten worse. The developers that would say ‘no’ are gone. I just don’t know if there’s anyone left that has the fortitude to fight with Geoff every month, week, and day on some of his directions. When the guy spouting the crazy shit signs your paychecks you have one of two options: pick your hills to die on, or, go find a new job. And when you don’t want to find a new job there aren’t that many hills that are that important.

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Well that WTF moment is easy to imagine since Android was promised on the website to be coming soon. We all know how soon that was until it was released. But it is still in a state where it has to be rescued with declares and serious bug fixes. It sounds a little like XOJO is trying to save face and get some subscriptions from its alpha-ware masquerading as who knows what. It is almost like this CEO thinks we the developers are born in the hills with an IQ of 2.22. Yet again a newcomer to the website won’t know this and see the software for the first time. They would be running for their credit cards and buy into this product and then keep believing something will be fixed or added in the next payment cycle. After a few years, you realize hey, maybe I’ve been taken for a ride. Oh Yes, you have been taken for a ride. Best advice people: “Vote with your cards”. Do as the Unity community did and start making videos about jumping ships and swimming for different shores. Always have more eggs, but most important in today’s post Covert 19 era, have two baskets :wink:

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SPOT ON assessment.

I worked for someone who was crazy for over 10 years (until he died) and given my age and the economy over the first 5-6 years I felt changing jobs was not an option, so I had to do what I had to to survive…

BTW the company almost went under because of his management - it has survived by changing direction after he relinquished day to day control, and then passed away soon after.

-Karen

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It seems to me those engineers apparently had some influence… although the company has always been very “late”, what was released seemed more sane back then.

  • Karen

Unfortunately
BUT, they dont have to buy until its time to compile and release an EXE
I often wonder how many download, try & go away silently

Probably not as many as you think. There are plenty of free and inexpensive tools out there and Xojo is pricey along with an IDE that’s slow, ancient, inefficient, and has little to no customization options compared to other IDE’s out there.

All you have to look at are the people that were/are using it (i.e. many of us here). Generally older meaning they probably used VB6, FileMaker, Access, or FoxPro. Liked those tools but they’re now using a Mac and needed something familiar that would build for Mac. That was REALbasic’s strength. That demographic barely exists any more with the advent of web apps that run in any browser and can do a lot of cool things regardless of platform.

Of course, I’ve just justified the existence of Xojo Web. If Web 2 was better, faster, more scalable, have more things on the client side it might be a good product…

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Entirely possible
Truly I have 0 idea if Xojo ever tracked this & did anything with the numbers
Not something I was ever privy to

But I got tired of asking such questions and getting the “you’re a developer what do you know” attitude
So I quit asking (which was the start of my WTF thoughts and why I eventually decided to quit)

This was exactly how I started using RealBasic :+1:

It’s kind of funny, my first real programming was with Perl when I was 10. My father had introduced me to GoLive CyberStudio, but I wanted interactivity, so that meant server-side includes and cgi scripts. A couple years later I learned PHP. Then I want to start developing “real” programs, so my father bought be Matt Neuburg’s REALbasic Definitive Guide, thinking it was like Perl and PHP that I could just learn it form a text editor. It was REALbasic 3.5 at the time, and being (I think) 14 at the time purchasing wasn’t an option. So I leaned on MacSerialJunkie for a while. When I started working at 16, customer service - Janet I think - gave me a nice discount to go legit.

Anyway… getting to my point. I wanted to learn REALbasic to develop “real” apps because websites were a bit of a joke, JavaScript was villified, and CodeWarrior was kind of unapproachable to a newbie. These days, web is often the “real” app these days. Look at Discord, Slack, 1Password, and they myriad of other thin clients. My app supports just Mac and Windows, but I sometimes get questions about a web version.

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