You just have to love this kind of support

21

Ah, now I understand. So Sam is the culprit. He doesn’t perform updates, nor does he act in the “MVP-style”? Why is your reasoning based on today’s state of affairs, even though we’re discussing the past? And once again, you brilliantly seize the slightest opportunity to promote your products between the lines. Well done!

Indeed, I no longer use Xojo or plugins. I might as well keep quiet and stay out of it, but it allows me to express my opinion more freely. Many non-MVP plugin developers don’t dare to speak up because they’re genuinely afraid of the major competitors. That’s ridiculous in my eyes, but at least understandable.

In my view this fear is unhealthy and stems from the pathological nature of this “MVP system” and, of course, the current state of Xojo. However, with declining user numbers, deeper collaboration would likely be more appropriate.

I have always utilized all purchased plugins and add-ons, which is no surprise given that Xojo’s basic functionality leaves much to be desired. However, the quality of the documentation, particularly the included examples of some plugin vendors, is debatable. That alone could justify a discount, separate from wild promotions like the Omega bundle.

In any case, it is a great pity that very good products from Sam suffer from these smart-ass, predictable political games. His products were not simply closed source wrappers of open source solutions.

Offering products to enhance a subpar product is always commendable and sometimes worth the price, but it doesn’t necessarily imply that those products are exceptional. In environments with limited or no open-source projects, there is unfortunately a lack of competition that could alter this reality.

It is particularly absurd that the Xojo’s “Kolkhoz roadmap” also relies on the regular updating of plugins. This ultimately results in my view in an expensive yearly subscription plan for “everything” without much-added value or functional need for it.

It is what it is, and above all, it’s disheartening with a touch of absurdity.

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22

Wow, for you the one suffering from it is also the one which is guilty. Complex construction. But the evidences everybody can see and the results also everybody can see. Only for People like you it is not so. Think about, your’e on the Highway. Thousands of cars coming towards you, all wrong-way drivers?

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23

Just give some details:
Sam’s App Kit classes were in OmegaBundle 2021.

Then came API 2.0 with Desktop Controls.

Every add-on developer needed to work a few days to duplicate a ton of code for the new controls and adjusted for the new class names. For everyone a big waste of time and I assume quite a few people here on the forum are disappointed about that change.

I spend a few days myself to add 29 desktop based controls and over 100 extends methods for the new controls to MBS Plugins.

Sam is welcome to do the same, update his classes from 2021 and join a future OmegaBundle again if he likes. But without update for current Xojo, we can’t include them.

And I think Sam’s App Wrapper itself has been a regular product in the OmegaBundle for years now. It’s a great help for customers, who don’t want to spend time with Terminal and Apple’s documentation themselves.

24

So the bundle only permits things that fully support the very latest things in Xojo ?
API 1 AND API 2 both still exist so excluding Same seems … weird
The only time they DONT both exist is with brand new projects started since API 2 rolled out

Just asking as I have no idea how that’s all set up

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25

Well, for Desktop Controls, think about the experience a customer would have:

They may have joined Xojo in 2022, got projects and they all use Desktop Controls.
Now they buy the bundle and get classes for API 1 and copy & paste them into their project.

Run and see hundreds of errors and no of the extensions to windows and controls work for them. That would be a disaster.

On the other side, check how GraffitiSuite did it. Anthony converted his classes to API 2. Then kept the API 1 version around, but moved all new development to the API 2 version. If needed, he can help a client to fix something for the old version. Or clients can copy & paste fixed from API 2 versions back into their API 1 version if they still use it.

26

Sorry but that sounds like a nice workaround to get him out. At least for this Version of the bundle. And I can understand that he is not really in love with this decision. Possibly we are wrong and I really have to warn anybody: there is even a high chance that we are wrong with thinking and believing this. But it is one thing to feel that this is so and the other to get a proof that it is not. There is no proof and I also doubt that there can be even one. So there is only: do the changes for API II and you will be on board next time. I guess there is no other way.

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27

Everything has been said, and everyone should have sufficient information to draw their conclusions. If I express my opinion, it will neither be beneficial for my health nor contribute to a healthy and fair exchange of ideas here.

I prefer to distance myself from individuals who attempt to subtly promote their personal agenda under the pretence of selfless chatter and instructions.

#FreeSam

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28

Christian,
I apologize if my previous message wasn’t direct enough. What I would like from you is to show me the same courtesy and respect as I show you. To refrain from promoting your wares on thread/topics I initiate or topics related to my last remaining Xojo add-on.

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29

Yes Sam, things like this are happened when people using their ellbows to even make ten bucks more reventue for a month. It is so sad that it was happened.

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30

Yes
IF the focus is solely on NEW customers then it makes sense
But, there are lots of “not new” customer as well
Dont forget that

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31

So we sold OmegaBundle 2021 to customers including Sam’s App Kit in 2021 version.

Now came OmegaBundle 2022 last year.
If half of the OmegaBundle 2022 customers are returning ones, they already got the 2021 version of App Kit. You can’t really sell them the same item again.
The other half of customers is new and has API 2 projects and App Kit 2021 won’t work for them. You see the problem?

As said, we’d love to see Sam update his classes for API 2 and offer a 2023 version. Then we can include it in the bundle again.

32

Sorry. I’ll try to be better.
And CC me when you announce another update to your products.

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33

To be clear; the decision to discontinue the Ohanaware App Kit, came after I became aware it would no longer be included in the Omegabundle.

There are over 2,000 external methods that need to be manually vetted, duplicated, updated and tested. There are countless convenience methods, classes and custom controls, which also need the same.

Without the income from the Omegabundle, the cost to update to a DesktopControls compatible version was too high.

34

Such changes can be made in a few days, as we learned yesterday. So if you had just tried a little harder, you’d still be in the nobles’ club. I really have to hold myself back not to get abusive. These backstage games were and are so transparent that it’s just embarrassing. I’m very sorry for you Sam.

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35

Yes, they destroyed the product with their decision. That’s something this people can’t realize from their secure tables, sitting there and realizing: oh, when he is not on board my tool will be selected and sold. I am ashamed about that kind of behavior. Because there was no need to do exactly that. But, like all time, the excuse is: “you where not actualizing your product to our new XXX so you are not on board, sorry, modernize it and you are next time”. That it is for a simple wrapping of something like a c lib not an act and we all know. For your Kit it is half new writing. And therefore it will cost long time to do it. But that is not counting while they can do it within half of a day.

And so you may have to accept that they are directing how the Xojo world runs. Because they are only interested in one thing: sell their stuffs. And in their business using of the ellbows is a normal thing. Maybe they reflect later that they have done something real not nice. but they justify themself to be secure: I have done all stuffs in the right way. As you can read here also. It is always like this.

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36

The poisoning spreads through the entire Xojo ecosystem. I don’t think that individuals acted in bad faith. Reading Sam and reading Christian it becomes clear that the process of composing the Omega Bundle is flawed. It starts with the requirement of ‘everything must be ready for API2’ and continues with a lacking consultation phase with plug-in vendors.
The API2 requirement looks particularly bad because Xojo itself is not fully API2 ready.
We see Xojo Inc’s heavy hand and whoever makes the final decision of what is included in the bundle bowing to the master.

37

Genius: API1 will last forever. Like Ulbricht “Nobody has the intention to build a wall” …

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38

Yes, this behavior I saw in the entire process of censoring TOF. And like in Ulbrichts system there are enough people which like to slander other people. Systems like the one of Ulbricht and the one of Stalin are working like this. It is like: “Ha you dan’t like that we strucked him against the wall? We have so many people said that it is needed to do”.

Exactly that culture is meant when I am speaking about that.

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39

The lucky ones are those who entirely left the Xojo ecosystem.

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40

Sorry to hear that it would be such an enormous amount of work.
I didn’t know the size of the job.

And I’d have wished we wouldn’t have to do it. e.g. if Xojo would have implemented the whole thing with alias names at compiler level. Like the compiler doesn’t care whether you write “var” or “dim”. It could also have treated TextField and DesktopTextField as the same name and make your extensions work automatically.

2 Likes