JFC i can’t believe we’re doing this conversation again.
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Its the circle of topics here on INN
Every one of them starts somewhere but all roads lead to the same topics eventually 
The INN version of “All roads lead to Rome”
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i think in postgre you have to add from dual
select 'hello world' from dual
No, that’s only for Oracle. In PostgreSQL the FROM clause is not mandatory.
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Same in SQLite: SELECT 'Hello world' is all you need
right. i thought it was around half-and-half. i couldn’t remember which ones required it.
SQL in strong contrast to HTML is Turing complete:
Here a Mandelbrot Example in SQL 
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It is always fascinating to see programmers use a programming language for performing such task which the original developers have never thought of or envisioned. 
This also shows the creativity of the developer who wrote this code!
You can do rule110 in html5
HTML w/o Javascript? I do not think so.
HTML5 incl javascript is undiputable.
HTML + CSS can do rule110, theres been a few projects around. I don’t have the capacity to search at the moment but I can look later if no one else does.
all of this is not resulting in a programming language for SQL and also HTML. HTML with JavaScript is using a programming language. There is no way to name tham programming languages.
You are correct. JavaScript is a scripting language, not a programming language. Also has nothing to do with Java.
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I’d like to think i was pretty clear in what I said.
Some consider HTML5 to include JS, which, honestly, would be like saying you program in .net. You write software in C# using WPF. In this case, if .net was called WPF, it’d result in a similar setup as HTML5.
SQL is a programming language. Just because someone can’t write SQL or SQL stored procedures doesn’t mean it’s not programming.
And the part that upsets me about all this pedantic nonsense is the amount of times I’ve seen this discourse of ‘not a real language’ used in meetings, etc to put down skilled workers as either excuses to pay them less or just put them down for giggles.
That’s the nerve that gets hit when I see this.
But what gets really nuts is “I don’t know how to X therefore it’s not a valid programming language.” I get the cutting hairs over HTML itself for categorical reasons. What I don’t understand is grabbing stuff like SQL, and shitting on it over and over again in the face of its obvious features and abilities because those features are unknown. Or because outputs aren’t in a format we are used to it somehow doesn’t count.
Look, PowerPoint is turing complete.. Maybe turing complete as a defining goal shouldn’t be the case anymore when you can potentially make anything do anything. Maybe this kind of thing just doesn’t matter that much anymore. Maybe arbitrary lines drawn are really fuzzier than we’d like to admit.
Maybe 1936 rules aren’t the best way to describe what we have today? looks out window
Or actually, maybe they are, everything is fucked outside and it certainly feels like it could be the 1930s.
HTML doesnt by default include javascript
I can write HTML in Notepad or Bbedit and theres not a chance its Turing complete
javascript, without html, is Turing complete
HTML + CSS also isnt
Heck even on the web I can turn JS off and yes it breaks a lot of sites but HTML + JS isnt assured
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I am working with QL since I was first time connected with it on IBM System SQL/DS. Ling time ago, was 87 or 88. May it a programming language or not. SWL isn’t used for programming in my eyes but for procedures the database is using like a script. But okay, define it as a rogramming language.
I don’t know what you mean with your “I don’t know how to X therefore it’s not a valid programming language.”. I know how to use SQL since long time and I am working with many SQL Databases, actually under Windows, Linux and on IBM I-Series. So I guess, in case you wanted to tease me with this: may be you are a bit wrong.
Beside that: Let’s make a definition. A Programming language is a language we can compile and which runs directly under an operating system with it’s interpreter or as a compiled binary. That said we have no SQL anymore in this list. And also JavaScraipt runs on an operating System with it’s interpreter. so the world is functioning again.
I don’t get the arguments. If HTML isn’t a programming language without Javascript, then Javascript is the programming language.
While SQL could be a programming language, but you really have to stretch the definition.
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no one here seems to have a consistent definition that makes them happy and also excludes whatever they don’t like.
At least we can throw out the idea of ‘turing completeness’ having any meaning in what a programming language is. Thinking outside of the box is progress.
And it means that we can exclude the concept of PowerPoint being a programming language, while the following are included as programming languages:
- AppleScript
- HyperTalk
- Xojo
- JavaScript
- VBScript
- Java
- The .Net family
- Shell Scripting, incl powershell
- Python
- VBA
- SQL
- Lil
- Lua
Wait, SQL? Aw, shit. SQL is a language that we can compile, and can run directly under an operating system with it’s interpreter, the SQL Server!
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SQL compiler? For which Database you can use binary SQL? I would be really interested. The Database uses the SQL commands not as an interpreted language. So we can discuss if it is a programming language. It is - more or less - different on every SQL Database while the Databases using SQL. Okay, let’s say programming language.
I wouldnt say you NEED to compile a language too make it a proper programming language
Python & JS can be but they do not require being compiled
Bash is as well and isnt compiled
HTML however isnt particularly because it has no looping or flow control mechanisms
SQL CAN do this and I have written full programs SQL
Not my preference but that was the requirement
It basically served as the exposed API to the business logic that was in the DB
This was many many years ago (mid 1990’s)
Turing completeness is about as good a definition of a programming language as there is today